College Credit

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Need advice...my son is a Junior this year. He is going through the Dual Enrollment program at our local community college. He wants to specialize in computer security/cyber technology. There is a two year degree he can obtain through the IT department. However, these classes that are directly computer-related will not transfer over to a 4 year university in the future. So, do I still have him take the computer classes, anyways or do I have him complete the 2-year business degree, where these classes will transfer to a 4 year university? Thoughts?

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Are the IT classes properly certified (MCSE, A+, etc?)

If they are, in Cyber security, he could well get a well paying job right out of of CC. Why would he *want* to go on for a 4-year degree that would end up paying less.

I would strongly encourage the computer certification - if it is REAL certification with proper exams and paperwork.
https://www.microsoft.com/learning/en-u ... ation.aspx

Also, unless you've talked to several 4-year colleges - it may be that they WOULD accept at least part of the classes as transfer.

A college degree has 2 purposes 1) to make a young person able to work to support a family and 2) character.

The CC course will probably take care of #1. As for #2 - a lot of modern institutions, with their partying and propaganda fail in this one, anyway.

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

Are the IT classes properly certified (MCSE, A+, etc?)

If they are, in Cyber security, he could well get a well paying job right out of of CC. Why would he *want* to go on for a 4-year degree that would end up paying less.

I would strongly encourage the computer certification - if it is REAL certification with proper exams and paperwork.
https://www.microsoft.com/learning/en-u ... ation.aspx

Also, unless you've talked to several 4-year colleges - it may be that they WOULD accept at least part of the classes as transfer.

A college degree has 2 purposes 1) to make a young person able to work to support a family and 2) character.

The CC course will probably take care of #1. As for #2 - a lot of modern institutions, with their partying and propaganda fail in this one, anyway.

He wants to join the military and do this very thing in the military...Cyber Security. There is a university in AZ that has an outstanding, 4 year degree in Cyber Security. The problem at the "cc" level is that (a) he needs to finish up his high school credits. (b)...he wants to take some computer classes to prepare for his future. However, if they are not going to transfer over, I am trying to decide if I should spend the money or not. In the 2 year degree computer program at the CC, some of his classes would more than likely transfer to the 4 year degree. However, not many.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Well, you need to do some serious research, then.
1) which branch does he plan to join?
2) in that branch, is Cyber security work done by enlisted folk or by officers?
3) if it is done by enlisted folk, he won't need college first - the military will train him to do it. in fact, the 4-year-degree might have him end up with an officer's commission where he CAN'T do the technical work an enlisted person does in this field. Check out the actual facts in the field.
4) if done by officers (which I suspect is unlikely), will the branch want to have a degree in Cyber security first, or will they want a degree in something officer friendly, like management.
5) is he ELIGIBLE to join the military (good physical health, clean record, high ASVAB score etc)
6) remember, military security is very different from civilian security - only so much of the fancy degree might transfer over. And, many civilianemployers would be quite happy with a gifted, experienced 2-year-degree holder. The military generally doesn't care too much whether your 4 year degree is an outstanding one or not - as long as you have one. In computers - in the civilian world, perhaps more than most any other field, actual skill can be valued more highly than the piece of paper on the wall.

Remember, "Many a slip 'tween the cup & the lip" - what he *hopes* to do as a mid-teen could well change before enlistment/commissioning - I'd encourage training for ANY computer job - not JUST a military one.

Three things to consider 1) the military will almost certainly pay less for this job than does the civilian world 2) military training in this field probably won't benefit him much in the civilian job market when he's done- in fact, there's a good chance he'll have to promise not to use what he knows and 3) the military is EXCELLENT at promising you that you'll get to work in Cyber security (in writing!) or whatever job you say you want - and then putting you in some job that has nothing to do with that. I know - they did it to me.

I think he would benefit FAR more from actually learning to DO cyber security in community college and discovering if that is the thing for him and learning the actual skills - and acquiring a trade he can market - rather than fluffy "business theory" classes that will qualify him to say "want fries with that?" if his career plans change between now and age 25.

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

Well, you need to do some serious research, then.
1) which branch does he plan to join?
2) in that branch, is Cyber security work done by enlisted folk or by officers?
3) if it is done by enlisted folk, he won't need college first - the military will train him to do it. in fact, the 4-year-degree might have him end up with an officer's commission where he CAN'T do the technical work an enlisted person does in this field. Check out the actual facts in the field.
4) if done by officers (which I suspect is unlikely), will the branch want to have a degree in Cyber security first, or will they want a degree in something officer friendly, like management.
5) is he ELIGIBLE to join the military (good physical health, clean record, high ASVAB score etc)
6) remember, military security is very different from civilian security - only so much of the fancy degree might transfer over. And, many civilianemployers would be quite happy with a gifted, experienced 2-year-degree holder. The military generally doesn't care too much whether your 4 year degree is an outstanding one or not - as long as you have one. In computers - in the civilian world, perhaps more than most any other field, actual skill can be valued more highly than the piece of paper on the wall.

Remember, "Many a slip 'tween the cup & the lip" - what he *hopes* to do as a mid-teen could well change before enlistment/commissioning - I'd encourage training for ANY computer job - not JUST a military one.

Three things to consider 1) the military will almost certainly pay less for this job than does the civilian world 2) military training in this field probably won't benefit him much in the civilian job market when he's done- in fact, there's a good chance he'll have to promise not to use what he knows and 3) the military is EXCELLENT at promising you that you'll get to work in Cyber security (in writing!) or whatever job you say you want - and then putting you in some job that has nothing to do with that. I know - they did it to me.

I think he would benefit FAR more from actually learning to DO cyber security in community college and discovering if that is the thing for him and learning the actual skills - and acquiring a trade he can market - rather than fluffy "business theory" classes that will qualify him to say "want fries with that?" if his career plans change between now and age 25.

What he would like to do is join the Navy Reserves. Do his boot camp and one year of A school. Then, he would be required to come back to our town. He then wants to move out to AZ to the cyber security university while he finishes his 4 year degree. Then, that will be the big decision, to stay in or get out. But he does want to go "civilian" at the point and time for the job. He may stay in the Reserves and do both, civilian job and Reserves, but that is to be seen. He is eligible for the military.

Thanks for the advice. Your last paragraph reinforces what I was already thinking.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Given that we are in a few wars right now, the Navy Reserves *could* send him into battle instead of to school. I know the recruiters always say things like, "Don't worry, they NEVER do that!" but it is a definite possibility. The Reservist who gets free school but never gets deployed is a luxury of peacetime - and even then it's a shaky thing. A military member has NO legal rights against the military for promises made - in writing or otherwise.

I know your son has done SeaCadets and is probably very pro-Navy, but of all the branches, they separate families the most - because sailors are often at sea at least half the time. That is something to take into consideration as he matures and looks toward adulthood - which most likely will involve a family.

If he simply wants the education - then dual enrollment (which he is doing now) is a dream. He could get a job after cc to work at part time while he goes for his BS - that would pay enough he could actually *get* a BS - maybe even without student loans! : )

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

Given that we are in a few wars right now, the Navy Reserves *could* send him into battle instead of to school. I know the recruiters always say things like, "Don't worry, they NEVER do that!" but it is a definite possibility. The Reservist who gets free school but never gets deployed is a luxury of peacetime - and even then it's a shaky thing. A military member has NO legal rights against the military for promises made - in writing or otherwise.

I know your son has done SeaCadets and is probably very pro-Navy, but of all the branches, they separate families the most - because sailors are often at sea at least half the time. That is something to take into consideration as he matures and looks toward adulthood - which most likely will involve a family.

If he simply wants the education - then dual enrollment (which he is doing now) is a dream. He could get a job after cc to work at part time while he goes for his BS - that would pay enough he could actually *get* a BS - maybe even without student loans! : )

All true. However, being in the military or having been a part of the military, will definitely help open up some government companies he is looking at for future employment. Again, he may only do the 5 years or do more, but that is for him to decide. Obviously, God will ultimately decide what happens.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

All very good - his decision and all, and God's guidance.

but don't count on the government job thing. It gives you a couple of extra points in hiring, but many government agencies won't even LOOK at a veteran to give them the extra points BTDT - as have several of my friends. The ONLY one I knew who got the promised government job was the one who lied on his resume to the government agency. They'd MUCH rather hire someone with corporate experience IRL. I had gov't agencies literally laugh at my military experience and tell me that they MUCH rather have someone with experience managing a McDonalds.

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

All very good - his decision and all, and God's guidance.

but don't count on the government job thing. It gives you a couple of extra points in hiring, but many government agencies won't even LOOK at a veteran to give them the extra points BTDT - as have several of my friends. The ONLY one I knew who got the promised government job was the one who lied on his resume to the government agency. They'd MUCH rather hire someone with corporate experience IRL. I had gov't agencies literally laugh at my military experience and tell me that they MUCH rather have someone with experience managing a McDonalds.

That is a sad state of our country if they laugh at a vet. Considering all the training all military personnel go through.

Martha R. · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:45 am **Posts:** 2924

My suggestion is to let him get the computer certifications and the AA degree. Then enlist with the IT rating. He can sign up with a 4-5 year enlistment for just A school or go to B school -- the more advanced course -- for a 7 year hitch. During that time, he can work on his degree with the Navy paying for it, so that when he gets out he has a BS, an AA, the certifications, and seven years of experience. That should put him in six figure income categories. We have a friend who is doing this...

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