Really Could Use Advice/Encouragement

Tami99 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm **Posts:** 5

Hi everyone, I am new here so I'm sorry my first post is asking for something instead of giving something. I am not new to homeschooling.

My first child is 12 and does very well (of course we still have our normal daily struggles). My second child, age 10, is the issue. I always knew she would be a struggling learner, but things weren't too bad until she reached age 7 and she started having absence seizures. She is controlled with meds now, but she struggles incredibly in school.

I have no idea what to do and feel like a failure. Every day is a battle. She has been tested and has no learning disabilities, but her meds cause a lot of issues with her memory and focus. She has a tutor, but it's still a struggle.

Luckily, my state only requires us to test annually, but the results don't go anywhere, unless requested. Her test results from last year to this year show she did not progress much. The only way she retains information is to drill and drill, over and over every single day. Now, we can only do this so much so there is no way she is getting everything she needs to learn. Basically, I focus on math and reading/writing. She hates to write, doesn't spell well, cannot remember what nouns, adjectives and verbs are, etc. We do a brief daily science lesson, but she doesn't retain much and I just don't see the point in drilling what erosion means when she can't even remember her multiplication facts.

She loves art and piano, but honestly, she isn't very good at either. I bring this up because many talented, creative people have told me they weren't good academically in school either...but they have a talent, and right now she doesn't demonstrate any.

I don't see how she can progress if it's the meds causing the issue. She gets angry and frustrated easily and hasn't learned how to compensate for her struggles. I try and model this for her, but I can see why she doesn't even want to bother. We tried using some of Dianne Craft's methods, but she tired of them easy and it wasn't working.

If she were ever to have to go to school, there is no way she would progress. We do go to Classical Conversations but she will soon age out of it because she in no way can handle the writing course she is supposed to be in and she is getting too old be only in the other class. Her younger friends are passing her by.

I just feel like her schooling is going nowhere. I worry for her future. I worry that if we were ever asked for her progress, it could become a problem.

I have no idea what to do!

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

I'd love to offer what limited help I can, but I'm having trouble understanding everything you're dealing with - so asking for some more info.

How well does your dd read? Can she sound out words she has never seen? I had never heard of Diane Craft, but after googling her, see that she focuses heavily on sight word memorization - which causes many reading & spelling problems for a lot of kids.

You mentioned that she doesn't know her multiplication facts - does that mean that she DOES know her addition & subtraction facts? If she does, that is no small accomplishment - and would indicate that your DD CAN learn and learn well. (To be honest, I never memorized my times tables, and I function pretty well in life : )

You mention no learning disabilities - but If her IQ has been tested, is it normal or higher?

How is her behavior during the school day? Is her focus problem due to seizures, their after-effects, and meds, or is behavior part of the issue?

Since she did standardized testing, how is she measuring up to grade level?

Tami99 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm **Posts:** 5

Her tests showed the lower end of her grade level in some areas and below in others. But I don't see her progressing much for the grade she is supposed to be in now. Children her age know so much more.

She does not know all her addition facts off the top of her head. She needs to think and count. She can skip count for multiplication, but that is mostly because she learned songs for them at CC. If I ask her what 7x9 is, she would have to skip count the 7's on her fingers. Her IQ was overall average and she scored below average in one subtest.

She does not read well at all, but has gotten better. I got a Kindle for her and buy books with narration so she can read along with it and recognize the words.

I believe it's all her meds. She does not have any seizures. The meds cause focus issues and the ability to retain information and probably some behavioral issues. She is definitely impulsive and emotional too. She does have some sensory issues (sensitive to smells).

The psychologist said I should just accept that she won't ever be an A student.

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Tami99 wrote:

Hi everyone, I am new here so I'm sorry my first post is asking for something instead of giving something. I am not new to homeschooling.

My first child is 12 and does very well (of course we still have our normal daily struggles). My second child, age 10, is the issue. I always knew she would be a struggling learner, but things weren't too bad until she reached age 7 and she started having absence seizures. She is controlled with meds now, but she struggles incredibly in school.

I have no idea what to do and feel like a failure. Every day is a battle. She has been tested and has no learning disabilities, but her meds cause a lot of issues with her memory and focus. She has a tutor, but it's still a struggle.

Luckily, my state only requires us to test annually, but the results don't go anywhere, unless requested. Her test results from last year to this year show she did not progress much. The only way she retains information is to drill and drill, over and over every single day. Now, we can only do this so much so there is no way she is getting everything she needs to learn. Basically, I focus on math and reading/writing. She hates to write, doesn't spell well, cannot remember what nouns, adjectives and verbs are, etc. We do a brief daily science lesson, but she doesn't retain much and I just don't see the point in drilling what erosion means when she can't even remember her multiplication facts.

She loves art and piano, but honestly, she isn't very good at either. I bring this up because many talented, creative people have told me they weren't good academically in school either...but they have a talent, and right now she doesn't demonstrate any.

I don't see how she can progress if it's the meds causing the issue. She gets angry and frustrated easily and hasn't learned how to compensate for her struggles. I try and model this for her, but I can see why she doesn't even want to bother. We tried using some of Dianne Craft's methods, but she tired of them easy and it wasn't working.

If she were ever to have to go to school, there is no way she would progress. We do go to Classical Conversations but she will soon age out of it because she in no way can handle the writing course she is supposed to be in and she is getting too old be only in the other class. Her younger friends are passing her by.

I just feel like her schooling is going nowhere. I worry for her future. I worry that if we were ever asked for her progress, it could become a problem.

I have no idea what to do!

I generally don't like giving this advice, but I would suggest that you take her to an educational psychologist and have her thoroughly tested. I only mention this because a long time ago, (before kids), I used to work for one. I have personally seen the positive results that came from this kind of testing. The psychologist that I used to work for would test the kids (or sometimes, even adults), and then, she would sit down with the people and tell them exactly what steps and resources to use to accomplish what needed to accomplish to help them.

With everything you are describing, there is too much going on with your daughter, it would be best, in this situation, to consult an education psychologist .

Tami99 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm **Posts:** 5

Thanks, I will look into it....if I can find one.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Tami99 wrote:

Her tests showed the lower end of her grade level in some areas and below in others. But I don't see her progressing much for the grade she is supposed to be in now. Children her age know so much more.

She does not know all her addition facts off the top of her head. She needs to think and count. She can skip count for multiplication, but that is mostly because she learned songs for them at CC. If I ask her what 7x9 is, she would have to skip count the 7's on her fingers. Her IQ was overall average and she scored below average in one subtest.

She does not read well at all, but has gotten better. I got a Kindle for her and buy books with narration so she can read along with it and recognize the words.

I believe it's all her meds. She does not have any seizures. The meds cause focus issues and the ability to retain information and probably some behavioral issues. She is definitely impulsive and emotional too. She does have some sensory issues (sensitive to smells).

The psychologist said I should just accept that she won't ever be an A student.

A few thoughts here - in light of what you're saying:

I don't think Stacy's idea of a psychologist is a bad one, but it sounds like you've already been to one.

It is hard when you have one gifted child first to adjust to having one with difficulties after that.

If she's at the lower end of her grade level, there is no reason to despair - you're doing GREAT for a kid with challenges! Don't compare her to "children her age" but to herself & what God has given HER to work with. Some of our kids had challenges & were well behind grade level, others did great. The point is are they being Godly, Disciplined, & doing their best with what God Gave them, not whether they're doing better or worse than others their age. I think that it was Mother Theresa who said something like, "God does not call us to be successful, but to be faithful" If a gifted child is being lazy and ONLY 2 grades ahead of schedule, that is worse than a kid with a disability who is working hard & 2 grades behind.

The Nathhan site http://www.nathhan.com/ might help you with specific ideas for special needs.

Discipline her for bad behavior (I'm not recommending harsh discipline here - or physical discipline, just some small consequence for *every* misbehavior - no matter how tiny). At the same time, inspire her to greatness - help her to believe in doing the right thing and trying hard. This excellent, very old FREE book, Jacob Abbott's Gentle Measures. . . . (another favorite of mine) might help you with discipline & inspiration both: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11667

Don't focus on the meds or her disability (whether they're at fault or not), but have high expectations of her, and expect her to work hard whether she excels academically or not. I've always considered the Annie Sullivan & Helen Keller story a great inspiration for working with kids with challenges. Watch the movie if you haven't done so in a while. Don't give her a "get out of jail free" card for her disability/meds. It does her no favors. I read a book a while back where a Mother of a Special Needs child said something like, "An adult with Special Needs won't be hired for her academic excellence, but for her personality & character - so I decided to focus most on my child's character development" - after reading that, I decided that was great advice for ANY kid - after all, nobody likes a temperamental genius, either! If a behavior she exhibits will get her in bad graces with a boss, then work on disciplining that bad behavior. If she's on these meds for life, she will have to learn to do her best to overcome the bad effects of the meds. She may never have behavior that is good as that of her older sibling, but she can learn to do HER OWN best in the situation & chemistry she is given.

My Mom was a professional teacher, and insisted that the advanced skills all build on the basic ones, and that the basic ones really needed to be MASTERED, or else many kids would have trouble (both academic & behavioural) when the "going got tough."

In light of that, and the fact that you say she doesn't read well, I would encourage you to check out and read "Why Johnny Can't Read" by Rudolph Flesch (You'll see me recommend it often on here). From what you say, it is very likely that at the root of both her reading & spelling problems is a phonics problem. This book will help you diagnose & remedy if in fact, that is the problem.

For math - work on those addition facts till they're perfect and FAST - even if she makes no progress on Multiplication this year. It would be better for her to be very skilled at the basics than to have poor grasp of the basics and advanced stuff, and be frustrated by everything she touches.

When you do study multiplication, an alternative method, like Ready Set Remember http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Set-Remembe ... pd_sim_b_1 might help her out so she doesn't have to skip count on her fingers : )

I know this is a lot to throw at you - and unfortunately I'm not very "touchy-feely" or good at comforting words - but more of a factual type person. sorry about that.

But, the bottom line is, if at ten years old she has a normal IQ, no learning disabilities, is only at the lower end of her own grade level, there is lots you can do and lots you can work with! And, you have already overcome a lot if you have compensated for the seizure and meds difficulties thus far. Don't give up - keep plugging away! You can do it! : )

Tami99 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm **Posts:** 5

Anna1111 wrote:

Tami99 wrote:

Her tests showed the lower end of her grade level in some areas and below in others. But I don't see her progressing much for the grade she is supposed to be in now. Children her age know so much more.

She does not know all her addition facts off the top of her head. She needs to think and count. She can skip count for multiplication, but that is mostly because she learned songs for them at CC. If I ask her what 7x9 is, she would have to skip count the 7's on her fingers. Her IQ was overall average and she scored below average in one subtest.

She does not read well at all, but has gotten better. I got a Kindle for her and buy books with narration so she can read along with it and recognize the words.

I believe it's all her meds. She does not have any seizures. The meds cause focus issues and the ability to retain information and probably some behavioral issues. She is definitely impulsive and emotional too. She does have some sensory issues (sensitive to smells).

The psychologist said I should just accept that she won't ever be an A student.

A few thoughts here - in light of what you're saying:

I don't think Stacy's idea of a psychologist is a bad one, but it sounds like you've already been to one.

It is hard when you have one gifted child first to adjust to having one with difficulties after that.

If she's at the lower end of her grade level, there is no reason to despair - you're doing GREAT for a kid with challenges! Don't compare her to "children her age" but to herself & what God has given HER to work with. Some of our kids had challenges & were well behind grade level, others did great. The point is are they being Godly, Disciplined, & doing their best with what God Gave them, not whether they're doing better or worse than others their age. I think that it was Mother Theresa who said something like, "God does not call us to be successful, but to be faithful" If a gifted child is being lazy and ONLY 2 grades ahead of schedule, that is worse than a kid with a disability who is working hard & 2 grades behind.

The Nathhan site http://www.nathhan.com/ might help you with specific ideas for special needs.

Discipline her for bad behavior (I'm not recommending harsh discipline here - or physical discipline, just some small consequence for *every* misbehavior - no matter how tiny). At the same time, inspire her to greatness - help her to believe in doing the right thing and trying hard. This excellent, very old FREE book, Jacob Abbott's Gentle Measures. . . . (another favorite of mine) might help you with discipline & inspiration both: http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/11667

Don't focus on the meds or her disability (whether they're at fault or not), but have high expectations of her, and expect her to work hard whether she excels academically or not. I've always considered the Annie Sullivan & Helen Keller story a great inspiration for working with kids with challenges. Watch the movie if you haven't done so in a while. Don't give her a "get out of jail free" card for her disability/meds. It does her no favors. I read a book a while back where a Mother of a Special Needs child said something like, "An adult with Special Needs won't be hired for her academic excellence, but for her personality & character - so I decided to focus most on my child's character development" - after reading that, I decided that was great advice for ANY kid - after all, nobody likes a temperamental genius, either! If a behavior she exhibits will get her in bad graces with a boss, then work on disciplining that bad behavior. If she's on these meds for life, she will have to learn to do her best to overcome the bad effects of the meds. She may never have behavior that is good as that of her older sibling, but she can learn to do HER OWN best in the situation & chemistry she is given.

My Mom was a professional teacher, and insisted that the advanced skills all build on the basic ones, and that the basic ones really needed to be MASTERED, or else many kids would have trouble (both academic & behavioural) when the "going got tough."

In light of that, and the fact that you say she doesn't read well, I would encourage you to check out and read "Why Johnny Can't Read" by Rudolph Flesch (You'll see me recommend it often on here). From what you say, it is very likely that at the root of both her reading & spelling problems is a phonics problem. This book will help you diagnose & remedy if in fact, that is the problem.

For math - work on those addition facts till they're perfect and FAST - even if she makes no progress on Multiplication this year. It would be better for her to be very skilled at the basics than to have poor grasp of the basics and advanced stuff, and be frustrated by everything she touches.

When you do study multiplication, an alternative method, like Ready Set Remember http://www.amazon.com/Ready-Set-Remembe ... pd_sim_b_1 might help her out so she doesn't have to skip count on her fingers : )

I know this is a lot to throw at you - and unfortunately I'm not very "touchy-feely" or good at comforting words - but more of a factual type person. sorry about that.

But, the bottom line is, if at ten years old she has a normal IQ, no learning disabilities, is only at the lower end of her own grade level, there is lots you can do and lots you can work with! And, you have already overcome a lot if you have compensated for the seizure and meds difficulties thus far. Don't give up - keep plugging away! You can do it! : )

Thanks for all the great suggestions and links. I will check them out. Believe me, she gets disciplined all the time! She gets no get out of jail free card here! I guess we will just carry on. I am just so worn out!

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

"Worn out Mommy" is a very tough one to deal with!

I'm not a "fun Mom" - I'm generally a bit of a "drill sergeant" for a teacher, but there are days when neither one of us feels like facing it!

There are days when we do "funschooling" when we need a break - the story to read is a fun one, we watch a Bible video instead of reading from our Bible story book, We watch "How it's made" on youtube for science. Do 20 questions on IXL for math, etc. Sometimes that breaks up the monotony without totally slacking off.

I had a professor years ago who had been unable to read as a child. He had a Pastor- neighbor take him under his wing & teach him carpentry - because there was no hope for him academically speaking. Until he was 17, and he unexpectedly learned to read! Then, he ended up with two (count 'em - two!) PhD's!

I heard another story of an obstetrician who delivered two babies on one day. The first was a healthy, promising boy. The obstetrician saw great hope for him. The second was a girl with Down Syndrome. The obstetrician saw no hope for her. The girl raised to be a loving, caring adult who blessed those around her & nursed her parents in their old age. The boy was Adolph Hitler.

Which is to say: we never know where this journey will take us! There are a lot of 10 year olds that seem to have a bleak future - only to find out later that they are the ones who had the greatest promise.

Academics are important - but they're only one facet of a healthy Christian life.

God has a great plan for your daughter - as long as she learns to seek his Will & be obedient, she'll find it - whatever it is!

LisaTX · **Posted:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:59 pm

I thought the outlook for my 9 yr old struggling learner seemed bleak, too. But after following Anna's advice for reading and math, I am seeing progress. He's not at grade level for either subject, but there is progress and that's what matters. Go back to the basics and don't move on until she masters them. It takes patience but it's worth it. I thought my ds was too old for us to go back and focus on phonics, addition, and subtraction. I felt pressured by where he *should* be at. But now I know it was the best decision to make and the only thing that will get him to where he needs to be. It really will save a lot of frustration in the long run. If I would have just kept rushing along, without going back and having him master the basics, there would be years of frustration and hopelessness ahead of us, but I forsee a better future now.

Tami99 · **Joined:** Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:51 pm **Posts:** 5

Thanks, Anna! Lisa, that's what I am doing: going back to the basics. Over and over and over. I don't think she will ever master them because the medicine inhibits her learning.

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