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 Post subject: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Yesterday or early today the US ambassador to Libya was killed. From what I understand a mob was attacking the embassy. It was reported this morning that the ambassador was killed by an RPG. Then it was reported that the ambassador and several other people were trying to leave in a car. They were either shot or "suffocated."

Facebook lit up with reports of Pres. Obama "doing nothing" or "apologizing." Now people are really getting worked up on Facebook saying we should bomb Libya, get revenge, etc. Now most of my friends are professing Christians.

What do you think of people's first reaction being that we should take immediate retribution? All I can think is "On whom?" Do people not deserve a trial any more? Granted, Chris Stevens, the ambassador, and the several others were murdered, but does that give us the right to send in drones to kill a whole bunch of people in Libya? How would we know that the drones hit the people who did it and no one else? How can we be sure just who did it?

Has the world gone mad? Have Christians gone even more mad? Or is it me?

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:14 pm 
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I think the answers to your three questions are: Yes, yes, and no!

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:47 pm 
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Well, there's a reason I deactivated my fb page.

These things are complex, and a knee-jerk reaction won't help anything.

Like your friends, I was disturbed by early reports that President Obama had apologized for the movie in question. Ambassador Stevens (and the US Govt) had no role in the making of this film. Killing an innocent man - and three other innocent people- over a movie someone else made is an outrage.

I was also disturbed by later reports of what sounded like a very weak response to the atrocity. Along the lines of "We really wish you hadn't done that. Please don't do it again."

And, there are some reports that this was not a "mob action" but rather an orchestrated, premeditated event. It did happen on 9/11.

Killing a nation's ambassador has been an act of war for all of human history. It does merit a firm response - and some sort of action.

Libya is not an ally, so we don't have many more trade or diplomatic sanctions we can make.

On the other hand, carpet bombing the entire region would only kill a lot of innocent people.

Perhaps we should have thought a little as a nation when we supported the whole "Arab Spring" thing. Who on earth could have been so naive as to think that promoting anarchy in the region would bring about democracy ? It seems obvious to anyone who has the slightest knowledge of the region that this anarchy is much more likely to lead to Islamic Totalitarianism in the region. All the Christians I know with ancestral ties to the region/culture have been horrified for quite some time at our government's support of this political movement, which (barring Divine Intervention) is certain to bring nothing but grief to Christians who live in these places, as well as to those of us in countries with a Christian majority.

Unfortunately, from what little I know, Ambassador Stevens was one of the big supporters of this Anarchy : (

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:00 pm 
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I have yet to see the apology statement. Can you give me a link to it? Every statement I've read has been lauding Ambassador Stevens and saying that we will work to find the perpetrators. The president of Libya has condemned this atrocity.

We actually know a young man from Libya, and the Libyans enjoy far more freedoms in their country than we do. (Yes, while Khadaffi was in power.) They may not after this event. I wonder if there was a police response. We have only our press's reports to go by, and we KNOW that they mold public opinion as they see fit.

It is not a fact that this mob was killing because of the movie. Unless you have the perpetrators and all say that was the reason, you don't know for sure. It could have been many things, and some of the people could just have been following the crowd once it got whipped up -- a true MOB.

Did the news ever report facts? It seems like much is conjecture.

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:40 pm 
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I agree much of it is conjecture.

The apology report was early this morning (hence my reference to "early reports") and I could not find it later in the day. I think it may have been a misreading or misreporting by a reporter of the semi-apology to Egypt a day or two ago. Or, perhaps the reporter thought that the Egypt apology made us look weak, and facilitated the Libya attack, but just did a poor job of stating it. I don't think it was necessarily a factual report, but it was reported all the same.

The State department website had the Egypt thing.

But, I have a couple of relatives who were in Libya for years, and the freedoms they report weren't so many as we have here - by any measure. I think when you're a citizen of a place, you're unaware - like a fish is unaware of water - but when you go as a visitor, you notice all the restrictions you didn't have at home. So other places always *seem* more restrictive than home. You know - you're used to wearing a Burqua, but not having to wear a seatbelt - the seatbelt law seems very restrictive.

No argument on the lousy-reporting issue. I've lived through a few international events and watched how they were reported here. I *know* it's abysmal. :(

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:51 pm 
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I misspoke - not the state dept, but the Egypt Embassy. The apology came today around the same time of the Libya violence reports. I think they got conflated.

http://egypt.usembassy.gov/pr091112.html

People were pretty upset over the above statement, coming so quickly after the embassy attack there - not to mention the one in Libya.

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:57 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/sta ... 53987.html

Also, I think the statement here about disapproving of denigrating the faith of others was, at best, badly misplaced. May have been interpreted by some as apologetic in tone.

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 Post subject: Re: SIGH...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:20 pm 
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http://blogs.artinfo.com/culturalaffair ... art-world/

The author of the above article apparently saw the same report I did this AM. She has a retraction at the bottom of the article mentioning a mistaken early report.

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 Post subject: I thought these two clips were interesting...
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:44 pm 
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http://tammybruce.com/2012/09/video-oba ... eople.html


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 Post subject: One more.....
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:08 am 
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http://www.therightscoop.com/must-watch ... -in-libya/


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