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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:15 am 
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Perhaps I'm more accepting because I've been in a place that had a terr*rist attack, and my cousin was in the Pent*gon when it was hit. And my military training. And, having a family member who does security for these types of installations, and has made me very aware of the serious threats against them.

Pictures of places like this *can* provide the information terr*rists need to attack - it just makes sense to me to restrict such things. And, the clouds are everywhere - he had other options of where to take pictures.

I see freedom as the right to live *my* life in a Godly way, but I am less concerned about other restrictions that keep me from doing just anything on impulse.

A relative says that when he was a kid, he could take his gun on his bicycle and bike across town, and nobody thought a thing of it. It would be nice to live in a society that was that relaxed, but with the current social dangers, I'm not sure it's possible.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 10:34 am 
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Location: Sunshine State
This reminds me of a case in which several Pa kistani men were questioned regarding taking videos at a dam locally

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-08-11/just ... ?_s=PM:LAW

in this case the men also had taken pictures of subways and other 'sensitive' areas. I believe they were deported

But I do believe our freedoms have eroded. On the vehicle I drive I have a homemade sign that says, America Your Freedoms Have Eroded-You Have No Civil Rights. I also have an American Flag upside down, expressing distress. In order to realize my freedoms guaranteed to me in the Constitution I have had to file a lawsuit against the city I live in. I should not have to do that.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:23 am 
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Oh, Martha! I am aware everyday of the ways in which our freedoms have been taken from us. The attitudes of those with authority has changed from being there to protect us and help us to being one of just that... "Authority". "*I* am the boss of you!"

Schools having authority over not just the children but the PARENTS!

Doctors having the authority to turn you in if you do not get the proper vaccinations for your children and Child Welfare groups having the authority to take your children for no reason and not tell you where they are for up to 6 weeks.... or is it longer?

Hollywood taking people to court and putting them out of business for selling edited movies. (That doesn't strictly fall under this but I feel it as a lack of my freedoms.)

Government making it ILLEGAL to buy a 20oz or larger soda!!! What?

And you don't need to get me started on flying. I've taken several cross-country road trips by car and train to avoid flying! I get pulled aside for special attention because my signature on my license and my legal name don't match. People don't know me by my legal name and I sign checks and things with my nickname. How are they going to check my signature if it's different? argh And this latest case where the dying woman is taking her "trip of a lifetime" to visit Hawaii and the TSA lift her BANDAGES and break one of her bottles of saline(?) as they're "checking" her in front of the other passengers?! :evil:

Our computer generation was supposed to make paper almost unnecessary. Hello! The stack of papers you have to fill out to do anything is encumbering us beyond reason! I took a check to the bank yesterday to pay a bill. I had the bill stub filled out and handed it to the guy. He had to scan the check, punch in the account number, do this, do that.... and then finally handed me the stub back marked paid. Do you remember the days that they used a rubber stamp and marked paid on the bill? That was it! EVERYthing has gotten more complicated.

Some of that is not just because of our legal freedoms being taken away but because our society has gotten so sick and also because we are so aware of so many (and certainly not ALL) of the horrific things that happen, especially to kids.

Our legal system is so messed up we can't process cases for YEARS. And I don't believe you can get much justice after YEARS of paper-pushing and mind-melding. : \

Watching my dd's go thru their court cases about their children, BOTH of whom I think got shafted, and I'm not just being prejudiced because their my kids, has made me feel like it's just a roll of the dice to find out which side wins.

Yes, Martha. I certainly see many ways in which our freedoms have been trampled down. It's a sad society. But, don't you see the other side? Even a little? Doesn't a business have a right to have someone questioned for taking pictures outside their place of business? You can't willy-nilly go to a school yard and take pics of the students either. When people were walking up and down the street taking pics of our houses and putting them in their gps boxes, we didn't like that either. (Of course that was the GOV'T doing the picture taking that time!)


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:56 pm 
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Location: Central TX
Amen to what Anna and Sis said! I agree about the freedoms, but I don't see everything as being an invasion of our freedom and privacy. I don't think that just because our freedoms are being taken away in many areas, that we should be free to just do whatever we want, either. That's anarchy, isn't it? There have to be some laws and this one makes sense to me.

I don't know if I would feel different if I hadn't been in the military. It's probably easier to see it from the other side when you've been on that side. I did see a man taking pictures right outside the military base that I worked and lived on once. It turned out to be nothing, but I remember the little jolt of fear I felt for our safety.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:50 pm 
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Sis wrote:
Yes, Martha. I certainly see many ways in which our freedoms have been trampled down. It's a sad society. But, don't you see the other side? Even a little? Doesn't a business have a right to have someone questioned for taking pictures outside their place of business? You can't willy-nilly go to a school yard and take pics of the students either. When people were walking up and down the street taking pics of our houses and putting them in their gps boxes, we didn't like that either. (Of course that was the GOV'T doing the picture taking that time!)


YES! I absolutely could see the refinery security confronting the guy and telling him to leave. If he's on private property or taking pictures in a clearly marked area, YES, he should be sent packing. Bu that's not what I got from the article. The FBI came knocking on his door after the fact. Now the guy has an "FBI file" so he's wondering if he is being watched. Under the Patriot Act his phone can be tapped, his movements monitored, his life scrutinized to the nth degree. I do not think this is right!

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Yes - that's a good point, Martha.

I can see that the FBI might want to be sure that he didn't have a huge collection of pictures of sensitive sites, or be connected with some bad folk. But, monitoring him for the rest of his life after finding out he had no ill intent is another matter.

Of course, you can request your FBI file under freedom of information. But, as the saying goes, if you request one and they don't have one, they WILL start one.

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 Post subject: Oh yeah - and then there's the ID tracking in school in TX..
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:06 pm 
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http://rt.com/usa/news/texas-school-id-hernandez-033/


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:11 pm 
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BTW, I grew up on military bases, and if an area needs to be secure, you guard the area. You don't make everyone avoid the area (reducing their freedoms) just because a building in it needs to be secure.

Nowadays the entire US population has to be groped to get on a plane, for example, because their *might* be 1 out of millions with ill intent. Because this refinery isn't appropriately guarded, people's freedom is reduced. Does this make more sense?

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Yes, it makes more sense, but still..... if it were being guarded and the guy came and took pics, wouldn't the same thing happen?


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:33 pm 
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And, imagine the tax bill if every possible civilian target had its entire perimeter guarded at taxpayer expense. Isn't it better to have an active citizenry performing a sort of neighborhood watch like happened here? Isn't that a sign of a healthier democracy than having armed guards around everything?

I AM horrified by the loss of freedoms - like I see on ACLJ, Parents rights. org & HSLDA websites - I'm just not sure that this case is a great example.

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