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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:56 pm 
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There was a very active citizen reporting group in East Germany. Lots of people got reported and interrogated. I don't think it was very pleasant.

I don't think you need armed guards around everything, but if this place is such a threat, why wouldn't it? The interstates are right next to some of the refineries in TX. So, if I think it's interesting and take a video while driving by, will I get pulled over? If I'm a terrorist and I drive by 25 times taking pictures, won't I be able to use those?

What I'm saying is that we live in fear and lose liberties while those who wish to do evil can still do it no matter how many freedoms the rest of us lose. So how far will we let it go?

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 2:57 pm 
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Why didn't the citizen gather a few more citizens and go check the guy out for themselves?


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:11 pm 
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I think it's a slippery slope and one that will never go back the other way now. As a tourist, I wanted to take pics of the NY subway. I was shooed away and told not to take any pics because they could be used by terrorists. (Thankfully the FBI did NOT show up.... to my knowledge.)

Now, does my right to take pics of my experience and vacation override the right of the subway people to try to do what they think will make them safer?

We can not go back to the way things were. We live in a different world. And yet I agree with you Martha, that we are too willing to give up our rights in order to *feel* safer. It doesn't really make us safer as there are far too many ways for things to go sideways.


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:27 pm 
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To me, the difference between East German citizen-reports (or 1960's Chinese, or 1970's Cambodian, or . . . ) is whether they are trying to compel people to be Godly or un-Godly. Under these evil government systems, people were reporting people for committing MORAL acts. It was the same as Shadrach, Meshach & Abednego with Nebuchadnezzar - they failed to worship the state, so were sent to prison or killed for it after being reported by their neighbors.

I LIKE a neighborhood watch when it prevents home break ins, murders & terr*rism.

(My Mom was pretty good to call pesky stalkers in to the cops. One day she actually blew the cover of the FBI - who were doing a stake-out of our drug-kingpin neighbors! :oops: )

It's true that no method can prevent 100% of crime. That's true for any method of crime prevention (including steps to prevent robbery, murder, etc), but I'm still in favor of crime prevention to get that 90% of attempts that *are* stopped that way.

There is a point at which the trade off in lost freedoms is not worth the value of the prevention. For instance, I disfavor driving security checkpoints for ID's - even tho these would stop a certain number of criminals of all stripes.

But, perhaps because I'm not very artistic :geek:, the value of photography does not (for me) outweigh the value of chasing stalkers away from refineries.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Anna, I wonder how close the guy was to the refinery. Was he 1/2 mile? Was he using a telephoto lens? The pictures look like a wide angle to me. There is much information that we don't have.

It seems to me (not knowing much on this topic) that if someone wanted to destroy a facility making such volatile materials, you wouldn't need photos to do it. ;0) So maybe that will give a better idea of why this sounds out of line from a Constitutional perspective to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:06 pm 
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You would use photos for several purposes like seeing how busy it is at certain times of the day - seeing if anybody would turn you in (ahem) - seeing where windows and doors are - where are the entrances thru the gates - are there smokestacks or vents or ???


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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:10 pm 
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LOL, why bother? Now if the photographer had been holding an RPG...
:0)

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:14 pm 
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My posts keep getting bumped : (

I think, Martha, that we agree that our government has a disturbing trend toward t0tal1tariansm.

And yes, I agree there's a huge grey area with how serious this incident may have been.

I know NOTHING about photography - I'm so bad that DH has to take our point-n-shoot pics!

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Sis, those questions would be very applicable to a regular building, but not so relevant for a refinery.

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 Post subject: Re: Man taking pictures of clouds questioned by FBI
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Why?


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