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 Post subject: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:06 pm 
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http://news.yahoo.com/la-sheriff-feds-i ... 17591.html

I would have expected the KGB to go "question" someone who had communicated an idea the government disliked.

But, supposedly anyway, our government aren't even the objectors to this man's communications - but rather another government!

GRRR.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:06 pm 
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I'm a little confused by that article. Who is Steven Klein?

Yep. So much for free speech!

That guy should be hiding out. Apparently the move is poorly made and untruthful, but it sure has gotten a lot of publicity thanks to our media. I don't think lying is against the law when it comes to movies. Otherwise, I think a lot more movie makers might be in trouble. Unfortunately, you can't legislate responsible and intelligent behavior. (This applies on many topics!!)

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:19 pm 
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I watched the "movie" this afternoon. It is a cross between Borat, Rocky Horror Picture show & Ishtar. (Not suitable for kids, BTW - no N*dity, but lots of raunchy innuendo). 14 minutes long.

This is NOT the cause of so much international uproar - unless they mean uproarious laughter at the poor quality.

I am just stunned at our government's handling of this - they have really outdone themselves. Just when I think I've seen it all . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:30 pm 
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People don't riot over stuff like this. They use it as an EXCUSE to riot.

People in the Middle East hate us, and no wonder. We invade their countries (Iraq, Afghanistan). We degrade their religion. We call them names. We send cruise missiles to bomb them (reaching back to Clinton on that.) We send drones to spy on them. We send secret teams into assassinate people, violating the nation's sovereignty. Seriously, if someone did this to our country, wouldn't we want to fight back? Oh, wait a minute. Citizens of Saudi Arabia did do this on 11/11/01, but we aren't at war with Saudi Arabia. Think about THAT for a bit...

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:15 pm 
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I agree that the movie is an excuse to riot. But I also think that *we* are an excuse to riot. We are not the ones that make their lives unpleasant.

We've had very little negative dealing in the countries doing the most rioting - Egypt especially has been the recipient of huge amounts of American aid money.

I haven't seen *us* degrade Islam at all. Individual citizens may choose to do so, as the First Amendment permits. But as a country, we do not. In fact, we've been so generous as to actually cover up unflattering facts when they exist. Moslems are allowed to freely live, worship, build new places of worship, and actively promote their religion here without interference or government persecution. Something that cannot be said of the Christian community in any Moslem country I can think of.

I'm currently perusing a book on the Armenian Genocide (Smyrna 1922 by Dobkin). I'm not convinced that the Christians are the bad guys in history at all.

My own family members have done lots of work in these "war zones" to distribute food and medicine and education to people who did not have it prior to our arrival. That's not what I would expect of an invading army on *our* shores.

Some may see it as a violation of sovereignty to go after a single terrorist who has killed lots of our citizens, but the alternatives are 1) to let him keep killing or 2) to kill large numbers of innocent people along with him. Given the alternatives, I'm not sure its a bad solution.

I would of course prefer to preserve the life of even the terrorist and only imprison him, but unfortunately, that option carries with it a high probability that his accomplices will commit more terrorist acts to free him.

I do agree that our government consistently makes dumb decisions about who are our allies and who are not. Saudi Arabia's alliance with our government has disturbed me for years. The fact that our military who are required to live and work their are not even to possess a Bible of their own for private reading is an outrage.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:38 pm 
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People will come up with any excuse to riot because they want to riot. There is no logical or sensible reason to express your anger by destroying other people's property.

Regarding the "single terrorist who has killed lots of people," who is the judge and jury when we send in a drone? I'm drawing a blank on the name of the guy our gov't killed this way who was an American citizen -- no trial, no due process, just blown up. That is NOT RIGHT. Even the most evil criminals get a fair trial in this country, and that means the same rules apply even it they aren't an American citizen.

Unfortunately, there are people in our country who do degrade other religions, that pastor in Gainesville, FL, who burns the Koran. Seriously, isn't there a better way to evangelize than insulting those with beliefs that don't match yours? I see all these things go by in email and on Faccebook about Muslims taking over the world by having large families and how Christians need to stop them. Are we still having the Crusades? The Middle East people seem to think so.

We need diplomacy, not missiles. Whatever happened to presidents who were peacemakers? I really wonder. With our finances in the sad shape they are in, our gov't would do better to withdraw from LOTS of countries and spend less so we actually aren't trillions in debt.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:16 pm 
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I agree about the irrationality of the rioting. Especially when it comes to destroying not just property but killing human beings.

I haven't seen the FB or email things about Moslems having large families. I'm kinda glad of that : )

I don't hold *any* country responsible for the nuttiest comment of their wackiest citizen, and I would expect the same courtesy in return. If someone who happens to be a British citizen for example, says something bizarre, do we riot against the whole country?

As for the Crusades, well, Orthodox Christians were also victims rather than attackers in that one - so I think we can agree it shouldn't be continued or repeated.

If the American "citizen" terrorist you mentioned were in the front lines in an old-fashioned battle and got shot by one of ours, I wouldn't think too much more about it. If he was posing an imminent danger to Americans when he was taken out, well, to me it's the same difference. Of course, if there was a way to bring him to trial, that would have been ideal. But if those on the battle front thought this was the only way to protect a lot of American lives? I'm not sure the answers are so clear cut in modern warfare. Much like the guerrilla warfare of the vietnam era, we cannot follow the old rules because they don't make sense here, and we don't have new rules to replace them. I'm sure there are some great injustices, but I'm also pretty sure that there are decisions which *are* just, but don't appear to be at first glance.

In the end, I leave justice for these sorts of battlefield decisions in the hands of God. And, I pray for His Mercy to all of us - on all sides of the battle.

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:32 pm 
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The citizen was name Anwar-al-Aulqui. (Had to look this up!!!) He has lots of allegations against him as being an Al Quaeda leader; however, he also did talks at the Pentagon on various subjects for our military, so there could be a lot more to that story. He and his 16 year old son (also an American citizen) were killed in Yemen (The U.S. violated Yemen's air space to do this.) by drones.

Anyway, here is an article by Pat Buchanan. I'm finding I agree with him more than I once did. I'm not sure if he moved, I moved, or both of us did. :0) He says much more eloquently most of what I was trying to say:
http://lewrockwell.com/buchanan/buchanan265.html

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 Post subject: Re: Is it just me, or is this a police state tactic?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:48 pm 
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ON Anwar-al-Aulqui, I'll agree, there could be a lot more to that story. I haven't researched it, and even if I had, I would allow that my conclusions could be wrong (no matter what I concluded). Whenever one deals with intelligence, one has to allow there are huge blanks. The question becomes, should we trust those making the decisions? And we don't always know that. The days of an honorable-yet-rakish James Bond are behind us (and really, he never did exist! ; )

Pat Buchanan's article had some fine points (He's always a little too extreme for my tastes, but does have one or two good points almost every article). I disagree with his acceptance at face value of Bin Ladin's reasons for hating us - I doubt anyone so sinsiter is ever honest about his motives.

But, as Mr. Buchanan notes, lowering our profile in the region might well be a good choice. In the end, most countries don't appreciate being dependent upon another nation. Whether we help or hurt them, generally we get the same appreciation that parents of teens get for making teens dependent.

I wouldn't mind if we stopped parenting the world.

But, we have to be aware that if we do, some mighty destructive behaviour could arise which could be uncontainable by the time we discovered it.

No easy solutions out there.

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