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 Post subject: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:03 pm 
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Location: Sunshine State
He is the one that hsed himself through highschool, taking 3 years not 4. We agreed that any new gun laws will not solve anything. We like the idea of smaller schools with the emphasis on the 3-R's for elementary and then vocational school options after that. College prep schools would be an option for those wanting the college route. Kids choice, not a bureaucrats. So basically, no more mega-schools emphasizing sports but real-life skills. Ds is a bookworm. He participated in non-school football one season.

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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm
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I confess to being a complete radical on public schools.

I think they're an "entitlement" that like welfare should be offered to the poor & incapable, not freely distributed to those who don't choose to educate their own children while having means to do so. (Any more than we give free groceries to the middle & upper classes)

There. Told you I was a radical ; )

Additionally, I don't think standard education should be offered to near-adults. 17 & 18 year olds should NOT be sitting on their bums all day still in high school. They should be out working &/or attending college &/or serving their country. Many of these crimes are done by near-adults who have been coddled too long.

Okay. Go ahead & tell me how weird I am ; )

I agree 100% with the real-life skills thing. I've long thot that 1 year of high school should be EXCLUSIVELY those classes my counselors tried to steer me away from - typing, home ec, auto shop, consumer math etc. They were the ONLY high school classes I really used after high school. ( I DID use my elementary courses at university - but not my high school ones!)

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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:20 am 
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Anna1111 wrote:
I confess to being a complete radical on public schools.

I think they're an "entitlement" that like welfare should be offered to the poor & incapable, not freely distributed to those who don't choose to educate their own children while having means to do so. (Any more than we give free groceries to the middle & upper classes)

There. Told you I was a radical ; )

Additionally, I don't think standard education should be offered to near-adults. 17 & 18 year olds should NOT be sitting on their bums all day still in high school. They should be out working &/or attending college &/or serving their country. Many of these crimes are done by near-adults who have been coddled too long.

Okay. Go ahead & tell me how weird I am ; )

I agree 100% with the real-life skills thing. I've long thot that 1 year of high school should be EXCLUSIVELY those classes my counselors tried to steer me away from - typing, home ec, auto shop, consumer math etc. They were the ONLY high school classes I really used after high school. ( I DID use my elementary courses at university - but not my high school ones!)


What would end up happening, i think, is we'd have those kids running the streets causing more problems!!! Pre-adult institutionalized "education" is really just a babysitting service to keep kids occupied until adulthood. If they went out and got jobs it would deplete the job market for those that need to support themselves.

I'd favor a work "environment" where the kids learn to care for the "school". Mow the lawn, do maintenance, clean up the gum and graffiti, dump the trash, wash those toilets, cook in the kitchen, do the dishes, scrub the floors, man the phones, help the accountant, attend the school board meetings - take part in all the elements of this institution they take for granted and learn what goes into making it happen. Oh, and make a lesson plan and carry out a class here and there!

This should happen around 9th grade, imho. Maybe 9-10, then they could job-shadow/interview so many jobs to see what's truly involved. Much less with the trigonometry and such and much more with day to day life, including strategies for getting along with difficult people, what to do if you disagree, so many other relationship things.

Yeah - i'd structure education quite a bit different than what is the norm.


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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:30 am 
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You're absolutely right about it being babysitting & nothing more. Kids NEED to be productive at that age!

I HATED high school simply because I knew my time was being wasted (enjoyed college just fine, OTOH)

But the school care/work model you mention was already tried in 1960's Communist China :?

Economies tend to create their own jobs - if more kids work & have money, more kids spend money, creating more jobs for them to do, spending more money . . .

At least, that's how some economists see it.

I DO think Trigonometry, etc, should be taught at the higher levels - but I think that should be at a younger age (not 18 for pete's sake), and that it should be offered to the minority - who want/need that subject- not forced on everyone. In a home school, PRIVATE school, or public school for indigents.

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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:20 pm 
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Anna1111 wrote:
You're absolutely right about it being babysitting & nothing more. Kids NEED to be productive at that age!

I HATED high school simply because I knew my time was being wasted (enjoyed college just fine, OTOH)

But the school care/work model you mention was already tried in 1960's Communist China :?

Economies tend to create their own jobs - if more kids work & have money, more kids spend money, creating more jobs for them to do, spending more money . . .

At least, that's how some economists see it.

I DO think Trigonometry, etc, should be taught at the higher levels - but I think that should be at a younger age (not 18 for pete's sake), and that it should be offered to the minority - who want/need that subject- not forced on everyone. In a home school, PRIVATE school, or public school for indigents.


I think i may be communist at heart. ;) WHY in the WORLD should everybody learn trig? Who needs it? And i do mean they could teach those things for those that go in that direction but there are more important things to learn like how to KEEP a job once you get one! :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:16 pm 
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Work is a good thing. Maybe it's the Amish that have that one right (with school stopping & work starting in 8th grade for most) : )

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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Anna1111 wrote:
Work is a good thing. Maybe it's the Amish that have that one right (with school stopping & work starting in 8th grade for most) : )


I think work is great! But, i think it begins at home, and at school. Part of my high school curriculum was "working" (for free, as a class) for the teachers. I got the work order, typed up and mimeographed class materials.

I don't think it's going too far to have students "apply" for jobs they want, go thru the hiring process, etc, and do the work. They shouldn't be teaching children so much as teaching young people to become adults. That doesn't happen at school OR home much any more.


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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:01 pm 
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You have a good point. Our school counselors did EVERYTHING they could to keep us OUT of anything practical (those of us who were labeled "college bound" weren't supposed to learn to take care of ourselves!) It was a big mistake. How are adults supposed to function if they cannot show up for work on time, cook their own noodles, or know how their car works?

(just a side note, you had a mimeograph machine? I thought for sure you would have been copying scrolls by hand back then ; )

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 Post subject: Re: Ds and I had a long talk on fixing the schools
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:11 am 
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Anna1111 wrote:
You have a good point. Our school counselors did EVERYTHING they could to keep us OUT of anything practical (those of us who were labeled "college bound" weren't supposed to learn to take care of ourselves!) It was a big mistake. How are adults supposed to function if they cannot show up for work on time, cook their own noodles, or know how their car works?

(just a side note, you had a mimeograph machine? I thought for sure you would have been copying scrolls by hand back then ; )


Either way, i GUARANTEE we had cooler aromas!!! LOL


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