Your feelings on formalities?

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Yup - definitely a cultural difference!

I like DD's friends to call me "Anna" - or if they want to be EXTRA respectful, they can call me "Mrs. Anna" : ) NEVER Ma'am or "Mrs. Soandso" (anyway, most of them cannot pronounce the particular "soandso" that I carry ; )

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

A question about being addressed as "Ma'am" (or, if you're a gentleman, "Sir")

I grew up in a world in which the word "Ma'am" was used for people that you didn't know well, and with whom you were being VERY formal. For instance, a police officer, the principal of your school, the person who waited on you at McDonalds, a military superior.

When I was 11, I transferred to a Fundamentalist Baptist school, in which the words Ma'am and Sir were de rigeur - many students even addressed their parents as "Ma'am" and "Sir." This seemed shocking to me, and distant rather than warm and loving. I didn't mind addressing teachers that way - but for parents, it just seemed WRONG.

Fast forward to now. I don't LIKE to be addressed as Ma'am by younger friends (say, 20-somethings). If you're waiting on me at McDonalds, yes - but at Church coffee hour no.

OTOH, I have a friend from the deep South who is offended if young people don't address her as Ma'am - even in her own family. I guess that's her cultural background.

Soooo - what are YOUR feelings on this cultural tradition?

My view...I grew up in the Chicago suburbs....no one that I knew said "Ma'am" or "Sir." Not even during a business transaction. We always addressed our "elders" as Mrs. Anderson or Mr. Smith. A few of my mom's really closest friends, I was permitted to call them by their first name.

Fast forward to when I moved here to TN...talk about a cultural shock! Everyone is calling each other "Ma'am" or "Sir." My one neighbors even corrects her dog with, 'Yes Ma'am" or "No Ma'am." That feels really weird to me. If you want people here to be comfortable with you, where you have a child and an adult, I am sometimes called, "Ms. Stacy." To my kids, I'm mom. For the past 9 years, I have been involved with a youth, military program where it is protocol to address each other as Ma'am and Sir. This feels very weird to me. While I have gotten better about using those terms, it still doesn't feel right.

It definitely is a cultural thing. I remember going to my dd's school when she was in Kindergarten to pick her up for a doctor's appointment...a kid was in the principal's office. The principal was chewing him out, and I kept hearing him say, "Yes Ma'am." Finally, the principal said, 'You stop that right now. I know you don't mean it." WOW! Never get on her bad side! Lol!

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

I understand your point, Sis - that's what the military always told us, too! You respect the rank, not the person.

But, at some point, I see it as a false dichotomy. I see (not saying I'm necessarily RIGHT ; ) that our husbands by definition DESERVE our respect. And, our parents, by definition deserve our honor & obedience. Even on their bad days : )

I definitely agree that King David did the right thing to respect King Saul - even when he was very sinful!

But, I see a big difference between "Wives, respect your husbands" and (the nonexistent command that is often perceived ; ) "Husbands, force your wives to show you respect"

But, if "Sir" means respect even with familiarity, why have I almost never heard a lady address her husband as "Sir?" Even if she's in the Church & believes in submission in the strictest interpretation?

On a personal note, I'd rather hear DD call me "Mommy" once than call me "Ma'am" 100 times. It just seems SO much more warm & loving : )

>>> But, I see a big difference between "Wives, respect your husbands" and (the nonexistent command that is often perceived ; ) "Husbands, force your wives to show you respect"
<<< Yes, the first part is the biblical command and the second part is sin. The wife NOT showing dh respect is also sin.

>>> But, if "Sir" means respect even with familiarity, why have I almost never heard a lady address her husband as "Sir?" Even if she's in the Church & believes in submission in the strictest interpretation?
<<< Because she is modern. It hasn't been all that long since husbands and wives called one another Mr. or Mrs. Whatever. And women did call their husbands "sir". As a matter of fact i recall one instance, at least, where a woman reportedly called her dh "lord"! :mrgreen:

>>>On a personal note, I'd rather hear DD call me "Mommy" once than call me "Ma'am" 100 times. It just seems SO much more warm & loving : )

<<< Do you think it's possible that Mom is a derivation of ma'am? Perhaps a baby version of the word?

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

I checked out your theory, Sis (on the history of Mom) but it seems quite unlikely.

Ma'am (a contraction of Madam) comes from the French for My Lady
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=madam

Some variation on Mama is nearly universal in a whole bunch of languages for one's female parent :ugeek:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

My question about calling one's husband "Sir" is not about the "modern" ladies - but about those who keep the custom of using the term in modern times for one's parents.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

BTW - I do admit to being at the extreme little pointy end of the bell curve on this issue! :mrgreen:

For years, I haven't told folks my last name, partly so they wouldn't be tempted to tack a title onto it & call me that

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

>> But, I see a big difference between "Wives, respect your husbands" and (the nonexistent command that is often perceived ; ) "Husbands, force your wives to show you respect"
<<< Yes, the first part is the biblical command and the second part is sin. The wife NOT showing dh respect is also sin.

Amen! Preach it, Sis(tah)!

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

BTW - I do admit to being at the extreme little pointy end of the bell curve on this issue! :mrgreen:

For years, I haven't told folks my last name, partly so they wouldn't be tempted to tack a title onto it & call me that

I have the "luxury" of living in the west AND in an area even less formal than western cities, in general. Formalities for introductions and greetings are very informal.

But what about calling dh "lord"? :ugeek:

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

I checked out your theory, Sis (on the history of Mom) but it seems quite unlikely.

Ma'am (a contraction of Madam) comes from the French for My Lady
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=madam

Some variation on Mama is nearly universal in a whole bunch of languages for one's female parent :ugeek:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?ter ... in_frame=0

My question about calling one's husband "Sir" is not about the "modern" ladies - but about those who keep the custom of using the term in modern times for one's parents.

I still hold to my "modern" theory. It's just a slow evolution. Nobody that i know calls their parents ma'am or sir. On the contrary, i am embarrassed by how most people speak to their parents!

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

Of course you know people who call their parents Ma'am and Sir - Tory & Alexfaith just said THEY do!

And, this whole question came up because my (Southern) friend who has that cultural practice, and started me wondering about it.

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

Of course you know people who call their parents Ma'am and Sir - Tory & Alexfaith just said THEY do!

And, this whole question came up because my (Southern) friend who has that cultural practice, and started me wondering about it.

Ok, i SHOULD have said i've not HEARD anybody i know call their parents ma'am and sir!!!

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