I have a few questions. Anna1111 mentioned the burning of incense in one of her posts.
I am wondering about that. We (myself and my dc) are allergic to smells. There is a store here that has incense for sell and we can't even go into that store.
We actually get sick from the smell and get bad headaches. These are not even lit/burning, just the sticks they are selling.

SO.. my questions are: How do you stand the smell of the incense burning?
Is it very strong?
Is it burning throughout the service or is it only for a short time?
Thank you.

It's not burning constantly, it is from time to time during the service. How much there is depends on the Priest - some use a little, some a lot. If you walk in an Orthodox Church ANY time, you will smell a faint smell of it. For many Orthodox, it's their favorite smell in the whole world.

It is not that cheap commercial synthetic chemical incense that makes so many people sneeze/feel sick.

You might try going to a short service first (like a Saturday Evening Vespers, if they offer one of those), and see how you do with it.

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http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

When I attended a Catholic church when I was growing up, I liked the times that incense was burned. As I got older it actually would cause my asthma to act up. It was not as bad as the incense in stores, but still not good.

If God is leading a person to Orthodoxy, he will take care of any barriers or concerns that are needed.

I knew someone once who was exploring Orthodoxy. They were in a used bookstore, and because of a physical impairment, they were kneeling to see the books on the low shelves. They offered a quick prayer to God - "God, if you want me to become Orthodox, please provide an appropriate book for me to learn more about the Orthodox Church." At that very instant, a hand reached over their shoulder, and placed directly in front of their nose a comprehensive book about Orthodoxy.

If God wants you in a place, He will make the way.

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http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

At the very first service we went to, it was pretty strong. I think my dh may have had to step out at one point. I thought maybe we have just gotten used to it over the years, but now the friend we attended with tells me that that particular priest used a LOT when he was using the censer. (The incense isn't just sitting somewhere burning through the whole service; rather there are certain times in the service when the priest or deacon puts some incense in the swinging censer and walks around censing the icons on the wall and the people standing there; then that's it and he hangs the censer up again for a bit).

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)

How is the Orthodox church set up? I mean, Preacher/Bishop/Priest, Deacons? ect how does the headship start and trickle down. What about finances. Are there meetings and accountabilities? Or does this differ for each church?

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“The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread.”
― Mother Teresa

Well, the answer to that is very complex - and long. The book called The Orthodox Church by Kallistos Ware probably explains it best. (at least part of the text of that book may even be available online, I'm not sure.)

This is my layman's understanding:
We are a historical Church - our organization is founded on the Original Church founded by Christ and taught about in Scriptures and the teachings of Christ and his Apostles. It has a continuity since the New Testament (our Bishop was Ordained by a Bishop who was Ordained by a Bishop . . . . . who was Ordained by one of the Twelve Apostles). We still do things the way they did then.

I was very touched to find out that we have a Church building on Strait Street in Damascus - STILL in the same place where St. Paul had hands laid upon him! And, in fact, one of our Bishops once gave me a memento he brought from there.

We have Bishops and Priests and a lot of other offices. We also have a conciliar structure (like in Acts 15) in which big decisions must be agreed upon. And, in fact, our Leadership not only has authority over us, but also receives our Blessing for Ordination (the people must proclaim: "Axios!" - "He is Worthy" for a man to be Ordained.)

In modern times, we also have a Parish Council in most Churches - parishoners elected (or appointed, depending on which country they are in, but here in Cincinnati, elected) to serve on board which makes financial (but not Spiritual) decisions. This helps with the day to day conduct of the business of the Church - things like building repairs and electric bills.

Hope that helps. If its clear as mud, please ask questions (tho the answer may take a while as its getting to be my bedtime, and we have Church in the morning! : )

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http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

We can discuss it more later because that doesn't make a lot of sense to me. My experience is basically Baptist-Pastor-deacons-then secretary, treasurer ect. Monthly/Quarterly meetings. Discussions voting on decisions, raising, whos paid whos not, building funds ect.

Then onto a Non-Denominational church where there is a Bishop/Pastor, he has an armor bearer, there are care pastors available to the congregation but basically the Bishop makes all decisions. There are no deacons and they preach against them. There really aren't any meetings to discuss where monies go. He appeases the congregation for small decisions sometimes but not all the time and it's nothing for him to address the church body that he is changing the name of the church without a vote. We never got to see where the money was going. We are assured that the church has a mother church that it tithes to. It's a member of the Church of God but claims not to be a church of God. Most ministry is done within the 4 walls of the church.

We've been to other churches. Believe in speaking in tongues, have experienced many of the gifts, witnessed miracles and healings, demonic possessions and deliverances and lots more in between.

I became enthralled about the Orthodox church when Darla first began looking into it. I read the book she recommended that sort of guided or led them into the Orthodox but it didn't answer a lot for me. Forgive me but I've loaned it out and can't recall the name although I know Darla will know it.

As I've spoken to my husband about "trying" it out he does not feel led that way because he says we are free to worship Christ as we feel led and that we are no longer to be bound by the legalities of how things were. He feels it's too ritualistic and too Catholic.

This is why I was interested in how the Orthodox church was ran. I seen Darla mention deacons and it peeked my curiosity. I'm just trying to grasp it the concept.

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“The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread.”
― Mother Teresa

NOTE: I wrote the following post before seeing your reply to Anna. So now, off to read that ....

A bishop is bishop over an area (like a city or region). Because Christianity grew and there eventually was more than one gathering of believers in an area, he appointed priests to serve the local congregation (but the bishop is our representative of Christ; in each parish you will find a chair for the bishop that he uses when he visits, and it waits for him to come again when he's not there). To assist in the local congregation, there are (ideally) deacons.

Historically, the practice in the ancient church has been that all bishops around the world are equal. No one bishop has any kind of supreme power/rule over the others. This is where the east and west church split a thousand years ago -- the western church (with the bishop in Rome) had been functioning as if their bishop was a supreme leader over the others, and the east said "Enough" and ex-communicated him. It's more complex than that (there's another issue that led to the split, but I'm trying to stay on topic, LOL), but the result of that was a church split in two with the eastern church holding to the traditions handed down from the beginning and the western church moving in a different direction. (To be fair, the western/Roman church would say the eastern church left the original church -- them -- by not agreeing that the pope had always been supreme over all the other bishops, so they say we moved in the new direction. We believe the Scriptures, the writings of the church fathers, the ecumenical councils, etc. over the first eight centuries show differently.)

BTW, our priests and deacons can be married. Traditionally, the bishops are not. Our parish priest is married with four children.

While there are traditionally no women in the above named positions (although in some places you might find deaconesses), women can serve in a variety of other ways including being on (and even leading) the parish council, heading up/serving on committees, making the prosphora loaves for the Eucharist, leading the choir, etc.



From what I understand, each parish handles its own budget, but there are probably policies/practices that come down from the bishop and the archdiocese. I'm on our parish council and it's all open and available for all to see if they want. Nothing is done in secret.
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ETA: Now that I've read your reply, I don't think I answered your questions either, but I can try again. I love your honest questions, Jenileigh. I'll let the above stand for info's sake and because it may have helped a little bit.

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)

This is similar to what you'd see in a parish, with a little variance.


This does not sound healthy (or biblical). But truth be told, I know an Orthodox parish that's functioning with a priest a bit like this, too. The people don't have much knowledge/say but are assured everything is fine. I'm pretty sure it will come to a head, though, and be dealt with. There are no lone churches in Orthodoxy. All parishes have bishops over them and sister parishes within their jurisdiction (and really, around the world -- we're all one).


We believe in all this, too, and as you read the lives of the saints throughout history, you see amazing miracles testified to. Did you know that when Mary, Jesus' mother, died, all the living apostles came to where she was for her funeral? And I don't mean on foot -- they all miraculously appeared. There are words of knowledge, healings, deliverance, etc. all in Orthodoxy. Maybe not in a spontaneous way during services like you're used to (as we were), because the design and purpose of our liturgy is different from that, but they're there a part of our faith all the same.


Was it Becoming Orthodox by Fr. Peter Gillquist, the story of how seven former Campus Crusade leaders led about 2000 people into converting at once in the 1970s-1980s? That's the one coming to mind. I can think of a couple more to recommend (and Anna's recommendation of The Orthodox Church by Bshp. Kallistos Ware is a good one, too). One is Common Ground: An Introduction to Eastern Christianity for the American Christian by Jordan Bajis and the other is Light From the Christian East: An Introduction to the Orthodox Tradition by James Payton (who is not Orthodox, so he's not trying to convince anyone of anything, just showing from a historical and theological perspective what our Tradition is all about). For a more warm, story-like telling of a conversion, I highly recommend Facing East by Frederica Mathews-Green.


Coming from the same background, I do understand his thoughts on this! And it's important to honor him as your husband, too. Hugs to you. I think, though, that once one takes a good hard look at what the early church actually looked like, and not what we think it looked like, it's hard to call it "too catholic" (we'd say "too orthodox" ), because it's the way the church was functioning immediately after Pentecost and moving on from there. It's how the Jewish people worshiped (and still do), and it's what worship is like in heaven -- it seems more natural that it would be the same during this interim, too, rather than very different from what came before and what lies ahead.

Do you know why I personally like our "ritual" (things like crossing ourselves, having the priest cense the icons on the wall, having a set service with specific wording, etc.)? Because it ties us to those early believers, and those throughout history, and gives a depth to the faith that I really need. I know that from the humble, simple saint who is my patron saint (a 16th century Russian homemaker) to the man who wrote the Divine Liturgy 1600 years ago, all eastern Christians did/do these things for the same reasons. And the Eucharist I will receive tomorrow, Lord willing, is the same as they received back then. What a unity across time!

For more on this, I recommend reading the Didache and other early church writings (people who were there). The Didache can be found online. A summary and exposition of this topic can be found in the book Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity With the Temple, the Synagogue and the Early Church. This books shows how the Church after Pentecost had liturgy, the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Christ (not a memorial/symbol), written prayers prayed at certain times, bishops/priests, incense, etc.

Going to some services and seeing the piety/reverence and honor shown to God in a deep, faith-filled way, and with God-honoring practices, is another something that will go a long way in seeing why the original church worshipped this way. Please do let your husband know, Jenileigh, that we are not Roman Catholic. I think there can be misunderstanding with that -- some think of the Orthodox church as an ethnic Catholic church (I used to), but we've not been in communion with the Catholic church for 1000 years because of the issues that came to a breaking point back then, which resulted in them leaving communion with all the other bishops of Christianity. We hope for reunion! But they would have to give up the supremacy of the papacy (and have him became first among equals again) and it's not likely that will be happening any time soon.


May you have a beautiful Lord's day tomorrow with your family, Jenileigh. I've known you for a long time, and I know your desire for the things of God is strong.

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)