OH sweet Anna. I love that. Every word and totally agree with it. It's God's love that changes us. There is nothing good in us. Only the Lord is good. Without Him I am nothing.

I do not justify my actions; if this is what it sounded like for that I am sorry. I'm certainly not proud of them, that was never a point I was trying to make. My point was more on loving others where they are and the Holy Spirit will convict them through the presence of God in you. I'm just not going to tell someone else what sin if for them.

My first comment came solely from my aggravation that people focus solely on one thing. If this doesn't make sense to anyone that is fine. Sin is sin. If there is sin in MM there is sin Brave. I can't help it if you don't understand the comparison. The comparison is not so much between the two movies themselves but to how Christians view them as one being BIG SIN and the other being LITTLE SIN.

We each need to obey the Holy Spirit and not ignore Him. Seasoned Christians should feel conviction in things but just because we do we should not in turn force our convictions on others. Living the life is an example before others. So often people talk the talk, even brag about their secluded lifestyles, all the while talking about how bad others are because they do and live differently. Again I say not everyone is on the same page. God says sin is sin, not that one sin is worse than another sin. We all sin. We all do. We should all repent, not just saying but feel it. BUT if instead of condemning them we loved them and went to the Lord in prayer for them I believe the lack of judgement would bring conviction before condemning would. I don't believe in watering down the Word of God either. On the boards it's very hard to get a point across with words.

Here is another example of what I am trying to say. I don't know if anyone here has watched Machine Gun Preacher or not and I'm not telling you to or not too. We watched it as a family when Sky returned from Ethiopia and Uganda for 2 months because this preacher went to Uganda and Sudan to fight the LRA and help save the lives of children from Koney. This was the original reason Sky felt called to this area. She wanted to make a difference.

I'm not going to debate or justify the movie. I'm bringing it up for one example only. The "preacher" and his best friend were drug addicts. This was obviously before he became a preacher. His wife found the Lord while he was in prison. Once he gave his life to Christ he changed and became a new man in Christ. His friend was amazed. He couldn't believe the change in the preacher. These men were best friends and loved each other. They were pretty much the only family each other had. The preacher man did not leave his best friend behind in the mess and addiction of drugs. He went and got him, took him to his house, stayed with him and cared for him until his withdrawals were over. Once his friend was clean, he could see and understand reality. From this preacher's love, patience, lack of judgement his soul was saved. THEN towards the end of the movie the preacher was confused, hurt and angry. He lashed out at his best friend and took his love from him. His friend could not bear the rejection. He overdosed and the last thing he said in a message to the Preacher man was,"I wish you were here to pray with me."

This example is my vision of Christianity today. What it should be but in reality what it is. It should be love, sacrifice willingness. It should be working on the highways and byways. It should be putting others before ourselves. Our focus gets off. We all too often focus on someone else and their sin and their sin is more obvious than our sin then we feel that we are a better/closer Christian. (I'm not sure of the word I'm looking for there.) We cannot pretend to know someone else's heart.

We also sometimes fall or backslide.

Lisa-I don't think I'm taking any attention off myself but in all actuality putting myself out there. I do not brag about my sin but I also do not hide. I have friends that will not drink a margarita in public because they do not want anyone to think poorly of them. Me, if I choose to have a margarita I don't hide it. God sees it anyway and it is He that I am held accountable to. I'm just an out in the open kind of person. I believe you are correct in that you do not understand my point and that is fine. We will agree to let it go from here. I'm certainly not trying to argue with anyone.

Organized religion is a whole other subject and thread. My experience with every church/denomination ect has been sour. I know I'm not where I need to be with Christ. I have a lot of bitterness maybe? Pain that I haven't dealt with? I'm searching for something I haven't found in a church yet. So let's let that be discussed another time.

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“The hunger for love is much more difficult to remove than the hunger for bread.”
― Mother Teresa

You make several great points, Jenileigh.

CS Lewis used to say that there were two sins he would not discuss, gambling and H*m*se*uality. Why? Because neither of them tempted him in the slightest. He felt it was all too easy to focus in on the sins that are not our own in other people, yet never notice or repent of our own sins. If we spend all of our time talking about sins that are not a problem for us, then it leaves our own soul neglected and in bad repair.

Likewise, I once knew a Christian Theology teacher who would say, tongue in cheek, "The goal of Christianity is to get rid of our big sins and cover up the little ones." Too often, that is how the comfortable Christian in the pew is happy to see things.

I don't think Lisa's Pastor was doing this, because he was expressly addressing a sin he himself struggled with. And, I don't think Lisa was doing this, because she said she felt convicted about some of the things he mentioned.

(Incidentally, several of the things mentioned in this thread as serious sins are not things that I personally think are necessarily sins at all - drinking & smoking specifically. Of course, they *can* be sins if misused - as can chocolate. )

I do think that there are times to tell someone else that something is a sin *for them* - the Bible commands it in places, and if you think about it, it just makes sense. Hypothetically speaking, If my dh were an alcoholic, I think I might commit a serious sin in failing to mention it to him. Likewise, if my best friend had a heroine addiction, I think it would be very unloving to give her money to support her addiction.

But, one on one, those things must generally be done with the guidance of God's Spirit, and in very tender love & wisdom.

One advantage of a sermon is that people often don't have to take it personally. They can accept what helps them or applies to them, and leave what does not.

Being fake isn't what Christianity is all about. I believe we need to deal with specific sins, but that it is very true that sometimes we do it in a way that hides our true selves.

And, just to end on a light note, there's an old joke:

Question - "How do you get a [member of denomination x] from drinking all your beer on a fishing trip?"

Answer - "Invite another [member of denomination x]!

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http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

My personal thoughts...

First off, I appreciate every one here showing each other respect in their postings. This post could have gone the wrong way, and I appreciate how everyone has expressed their views w/o becoming ugly.

Now, my personal thoughts....I strongly believe God puts in each and every one of us a unique quality that only "we" can have. For me, I am very straightforward, by "my" nature. I have the tendency to "tell people like it is" and don't hold back. Sometimes this is a good approach, and sometimes it is not a good approach. This is something I need to work on for myself. I need to remember when I talk to other people that I need to speak in love and truth w/o being hurtful. However, as I just mentioned, this is my weakness.

The biggest "revelation" that has been given to me by God, recently, is the biggest sin of pride. God hates pride. http://www.womensbiblecafe.com/2009/11/ ... out-pride/

For me, having that "haughty" spirit is my biggest struggle. Like Jenleigh mentioned, I am not a Christian, either, that hides. If I want an alcoholic drink, I will drink one. I had a liquor drink on our family cruise one time, in front of my children. They were shocked to see me drink for the first time. I explained to them that I am not drinking to get drunk. I enjoyed the taste and this was my vacation, too. On the flip side, there are times when God calls each and every one of us "speak the truth" in love. If someone is drunk all the time, beating their kids or spouse, not going to work, getting arrested b/c they are fighting all the time, etc., that is the time to speak up. When I lived in IN, I met a guy that I worked with that grew up in a very small town. He told me one time that a woman in his church always showed up with a black eye and a busted lip. It was obvious what was happening, but she never asked for help and would never speak up. Finally, one time, she came to church with her clothes half ripped and crying hysterical. Again, she said nothing. The church surrounded her and her kids. 5 guys, including the pastor and the elders went to visit this woman's husband. When he answered the door, they pushed their way in and said, "If you ever touch her or the kids in any unkind manner ever again, we are going to come back here and personally take care of you." While he did continue to drink, he never touched his wife or kids, again.

I realize the above example is an extreme situation, but there are times to stand up and speak out, but there also times to sit down and shut up. Individuals need to really listen to the Holy Spirit and decide when to do, what. My main point here is that all of us need to realize that we all fall short of the glory of God and none of us are perfect. The minute an individual starts stating that they don't "do this or that" is the minute they need to re-examine themselves. ***I do not write this at any particular person, either.****** I, myself, have fallen in this "pit" way too many times. I judge what one person has done (or not), and then, God kicks me from behind.

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Prayer should be your first response.
Not your last resort.

Shavawn, do you mind saying what kind of church you go to in NM? You can pm if you'd rather. We are looking for a new church. We are long time Methodists but after several very bad experiences with that, we have decided to move on. My mom joined a Missouri Synod Lutheran church. We visited once and it was very different that what we are used to but we need to visit again and give it another chance. I do like what they believe and teach, the service was just different. Of course maybe that is a very good thing! We are in a rural area. No Orthodox church within hours of us. I would love to visit there after hearing the ladies here talk about it.

My perspective on all of it tends to be asking whether I think the book/movie/whatever is glorifying/glamorizing sin or whether it is portraying a realistic view of the world with sin as something that exists. Does that make sense?

If the whole point of a movie is the "hero" choosing to behave in a sinful manner, I will not watch it. If it is a decent story that contains the occasional passing element of sin I will watch it.

I have watched (and read) everything Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings etc. because at their core those are stories of the battle between good and evil and the theme is the victory of good over evil and the importance of everyone standing up to fight evil (sounds like the theme of the entire Bible). I have not and will not read/watch the Twilight stuff because the premise is starkly different (vampirism at its core and in almost every portrayal is a trait historically associated with preying on the innocent for self-preservation - a book/movie with a vampire "hero" is not on my list of things to enjoy).

Forgive the return to the bunny trail, but as far as Churches and finding the right Church, etc., there are two basic problems with Churches 1) they might teach heresy or have a *very grave* sin (such as child ab*se) or 2) they might have human beings who commit sins as we all do. In the case of #1, you must either fix the problem - by say reporting to Church hierarchy or to the police - or find another Church. But, in the case of #2, I think the *best* option is to continue loving & forgiving the sinner(s) in the Grace of God.

Too often, as Christians we are willing to love, forgive, & overlook the sins of the non-Christian, but when it comes to our own Brothers & Sisters, we hold them to a different standard. If they hurt our feelings, we are tempted to break off the relationship and be very harsh with them.

In our Church tradition, we see *Schism* as an extremely grave sin. Rupturing a Christian relationship is one of the worst violations of Christian Love. Too often, we are willing to do that because Pastor Smith said something that hurt my feelings, or because our Church doesn't DO everything we want (not enough outreach, not enough youth events, not enough whatever).

Now, there are lots of GOOD reasons to change Churches - moving to a different city, for example. But if our departure from a Church is not loving, or is not properly motivated, then it can be a hindrance to our Spiritual growth, IMHO.

(as to whether Organized religion is Good - I agree that is a discussion for another venue/time/place)

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http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/