Hi everyone! I haven't posted in a very long time. I've just kind of been lurking and reading and enjoying your conversations.

But I have a problem for you ladies who have had raised children to adulthood and would be interested in your opinions.

My oldest son turns 20 today. Overall a good kid. Still living at home, pays rent, works (apprenticeship that doesn't pay a whole lot), goes to college. Never had any issues with drugs, alcohol, parties, crime, etc., but he tends to be rather self-centered and has been a difficult child to raise. He's still quite immature in many areas. Even so, as my first, he holds a special place in my heart.

As any mom would expect of a child 20 years old, my son is pulling away from the family and gradually doing his own thing. I recognize this as a normal progression in any young person's life but I didn't think it would be this painful and this hard.

While he continues to live at home, he seems to have no use for his parents and his family except when he gets into a bind of some sort. He has essentially "kicked us to the curb" and doesn't want counsel, guidance, advice of any kind. He doesn't participate in any family activities unless he's forced to, and then it's minimally.

This is his birthday weekend and he has spent every minute of it everywhere and with everyone else except us. He comes home at midnight every night and gets up the next morning and leaves almost without a word to anyone. Yesterday he left before 7am and, as of 6pm no one had heard a word from him. I finally texted him and got a somewhat satisfactory, but snarky, response.

He's addicted to his phone. Every waking minute of every day he has this thing in his hand, jabbing at the keypad. It makes me crazy.

Finally, he's got a girl that he's been seeing this summer that has him utterly wrapped around her little finger. Dh and I don't have a problem with the girl personally. Our concern is that she's of a VERY different religious faith than our family, that would not be compatible in a marriage at all. Yet, he's pursuing the relationship. It flies in the face of everything he's ever been taught about choosing a wife.

I'm having a lot of trouble separating what's normal vs. what's unacceptable. I don't want to be that mom who can't cut the apron strings, but he's not ready to move out on his own, even though I'd be OK with that. (We moved to a new house in March and he stayed in the old house for 2 mos. til his school semester was over and it was a TOTAL disaster on every level.) He's also not earning enough yet to support himself.

So, I'd like some input, please. Is having a kid who is trying to leave the nest supposed to be this painful? I'm not sure whether we should boot him out or give him more time. As far as the girlfriend is concerned, she's getting ready to leave for college and I'm hoping that will cool things off a bit, but who can tell? The more I gripe about that relationship, the more it will drive him to her.

Thoughts? (Be nice!)

Thanks,
Daisy

(((DaisyDay))). I have two adult children, one is 28 the other 24. I will share advice from a trusted pastor and friend of ours who has 9 children: you have to treat them as an adult first, your offspring second. Expect from them what you would from any other adult. So I'd say your son needs to know that he needs to be able to earn a living to support himself and maybe his future family someday. Sounds like he is on his way (apprenticeship and college). As far as doing things with the family, dont expect the usual...we go out of our way to invite our two kids to family things, its their choice to attend or not. We understand they have their life, their different schedules, etc.

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"...with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26

Daisy, a friend has recently been going through this with her two boys who are in their early 20's. One moves out and could care less to spend time with the family. Oh his birthday he went out with friends and never bothered to call home. The other was living at home, but got involved with a girl that was completely wrong for him. He stopped coming to his dad for counsel, avoiding both parents and prepared to marry the girl in less than a month of dating.

My friend realized that prayer was her best weapon. She stayed on her knees praying for the marriage to not happen. It did indeed fail just days before it was to happen. The other son is still in an out.

So yes, I think it can be incredibly painful to watch your adult children make poor choices. Prayer is the best option you have.

He's an adult. Let it go. He will learn

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Stephanie

Daisy Day! Great to see you on the new boards!!!

Once they are 18, their decisions are their own. I would have no expectations of him -- beyond what you care to outline as part of his "living at home" agreement. If you want to state that the fridge is off-limits unless he is there to help with dishes or whatever, you can do that. He is an adult living in the home so as Briva mentioned above, treat him like you would an almost-stranger. Is he paying appropriate rent? Is he taking advantage of the pantry and fridge? Is he making sure to handle cleaning his bathroom, doing his laundry, and cleaning up after himself around the house? If you are being a servant to him, it's time for a meeting to explain the relationship you now have. In other words, you provide him with X, and he pays you in money and/or labor for X benefits.

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Thanks, everyone for your comments.

In answer to Martha's questions, yes, he's paying rent and has free access to the fridge, etc., which we all agreed on. He does his own laundry but leaves his stuff in the machines, which grates on my nerves. He'll clean the bathroom when he's forced to. He shares the bathroom with his 2 brothers so they take turns cleaning it.

I get what you are all saying about treating him as an adult because, obivously, he IS an adult! I guess I want my son, not a boarder. If I just wanted to rent out the room with no strings attached or obligation, I'd put an ad in the paper, you know? I'd like a cheerful, cooperative, thoughtful individual who is actually a family member, not someone who just comes and goes like a ghost.

He's like this loose cannon, running from one place to another, seeing this person and that one, spending money he can't afford to spend. We try to offer guidance and counsel and he wants no part of it. He's got time for everyone and everything except his own family and his own home. The girl he's dating is a very sore subject and is definitely causing a rift in the family. I'm praying for God to intervene in that relationship.

I'm really trying to let go but I feel like it's like letting him run out in front of a train. Do we stop being parents just because our kids reach a certain age? Do we just stand by and watch them crash and burn?

My dh has 3 adult kids from a previous marriage and we NEVER had any of these issues with any of them.

Everyone else has had very good input, so I just wanted to add a couple of notes:

1) About the girl who is of a "very different" faith - if she is a Baptized Christian, and you are upset because a say a Methodist Christian and a Presbyterian Christian (for example) might not be compatible in marriage, That's one thing. But, if she is not a Baptized Christian of any sort, then you have a duty to warn your son as a fellow Christian. (See Ezekiel 33, Gal 6:1, 2 Cor 6:14) Consider a nice, sit down restaurant dinner with just your ds and your dh where you present your entire case in detail. That keeps it from being one of those many parental warnings that young people brush off as just so much nagging. Show him the Scriptural teachings on the matter, share with him any teachings of your Church that he should be aware of, and explain to him what has happened to others who have followed this course) Be sure to emphasize that you like the girl as a person, and if he rejects your advice you will still love him, and treat her as a loved daughter-in-law.

2) I am confused because you say he is acting as a responsible adult (paying rent etc) but is unable to live on his own because everything fell apart. Whatever fell apart when he tried to live on his own - is he doing those things when he is living with you? (for instance, if he never washed a single dish in two months when alone, does he wash dishes at your house?) Even a family member who pays rent should be a chore-freeloader (unless domestic servants are included in the rent). It does him no good to be an adult who cannot wash his own dishes, do his own laundry, maintain his own car, and keep his own checkbook accurately, etc.

3) IMHO, you do have a right as a family member to expect honesty and accountability (not all here will agree with me on that). With adults at this stage in our home, we always expect to be told where they are (even if we won't approve - we expect to know, and they can in turn expect us not to lecture), and we expect basic honesty in all things. Even with young adults who aren't relatives, we have this same expectation. A twenty year old is a legal adult in some respects, but not all (say, drinking, gun or property ownership). For many it is a transitional time between adulthood and adolescence, especially for those who have not yet assumed all of the responsibilities of an adult.

To me a good test question to ask yourself (to decide on the apron strings issue) is: "If my sister/brother were living with me, and acted this way, how would I deal with it?" If your son is doing something you would not tolerate from a sibling (such as leaving you to do all the dishes), then by all means, put your foot down.

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As for the laundry. I had my sister living with me years ago and she did this with the machines. She would start a load and just leave the wet clothes in the washer. OR if she ever switched them over, leave them in the dryer.
My solution: I bought a basket and any clothes of hers left in the machines (wet or dry) went into the basket and into her room. If they soured or mildewed or wrinkled it was her problem.
The dry ones were put into the same basket on top of the wet ones, or alone.. depending on what clothes were left. She learned very quickly that *I* was not her laundry lady.

There is a stage in every young person's life when it is time to move out. You know this time because the young person starts living his own life -- an ignoring yours. That includes ignoring the house rules, being mentally absent from the family, generally treating the house like it's a hotel room, laundromat, and/or restaurant/grocery.

You don't remember this time? On the young person's side it's a time that your family is weighing you down, keeping you from doing what you want to do (like staying out late at night), hanging with the people you think are cool, not having the stuff you want to eat in the fridge, not watching the TV shows you want to watch, and generally being boring, old-fashioned, or not "with it." I remember some of these feelings, after I was away at college for a while.

It's very tough to come back, and it's tough for mom and dad to realize that curfews don't apply any more and that they can't pick up the son/daughter out of whatever situation and fix it for them like they did when he/she was a baby. If the young person decides to be a prodigal at this moment, is it the parent's fault? No, each person has the opportunity to choose his path in life, and you know very well that there are some people who HAVE to touch the hot stove to believe it will burn them.

That was a bit of a rant. :0) I don't think much of that prodigal stuff applies in your situation, Daisy, but it might. The bottom line is that if you feel like your son is treating your house like a restaurant, hotel, or laundromat, or that he is has become a boarder, it's time for him to move on. In a bit (could be months or years), he will be much more appreciative of what you have. Right now, he's in the "It's all about me, the fantastic young adult with an income and the whole world at my feet" stage. It's normal, and he will get over it in time, and that time will be shorter if he lives somewhere where the pickings are slimmer.

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I think you've been given very good advice from everyone so far. Let me just say that I'm going through something similar but not totally like you. Both my kids go to college and live in dorms but during the summer they've had jobs. My son met his girlfriend 2 years ago. They are of the same faith but she does not practice like we do. I like the girl but I'm shocked at how controlling of him she is and that he lets her do it. Her family has a lot more money than we do and he has been on the receiving end of that money to include her father giving him a well paid job in the town they live in and her mom letting him live in her house (which she no longer lives in and has not rented out) rent fee and is paying his electricity, water, and even providing him with internet (yes I said they had money). This summer I've seen him once and the only time I hear from him is when I text him. While my kids are at college I never hear from them and they don't want to hear any advice we try to give them and get angry if we make suggestions. It has been a very hard time. My kids are still nice and well behaved but the part that has been the hardest is remembering that they aren't doing this because they hate us and no longer want us in their lives. That's what part of me wants to say. Sometimes when I'm feeling torn between their behavior and my mom love I have to remind myself that this is the time in their lives where they are finding out who they are and wether I like it or not they are adults and I have to allow them to make their own decisions, even if it is a bad one. I keep telling them I'm just trying to keep them from making mistakes, some of which I made at their age but I'm forgetting that as much as I want to still be their mom my job was to raise them up and as hard as it is I do have to cut the apron strings and let them live their own life. I know things will change as they mature, it's just really hard living and waiting for that to happen. As for your son, I would expect him to have a curfew or at least let you know when he'll be home. If he's living at home it would also be reasonable for him to be reachable if you need him (emergency situations) and of course he needs to step up on the chore side. The rest is hard, it's really really hard to sit on your hands and watch our kids fall. It always has been and up until now we've been able to stop them but we're at a time when we have to remember they aren't little anymore and we can't stop them from falling but we can behave in such a way that they will allow us to be there when they need help getting up. Good luck with your walk and I'll be thinking of you as I walk my walk with you.