We live near a spring-fed river, and the kids (19, 17, 14) went swimming the other day. When they were coming back on the highway, a police officer was driving the opposite direction, did a u-turn, and pulled them over. When he walked up to the car, he said, "Were you aware that you were going X mph?"
My daughter (19) responded that she was not aware. She handed him her license and registration. (He did not ask for insurance.)
He asked where they were going, if the address on the license was still valid, and who the other people in the car were. She said they were her brother and sister. Then he asked my younger dd (14) how old she was. She responded with her age. He then looked at my ds who was in the front passenger seat and asked him his age. He responded with "17." Then he said, "What is your birthdate?"
My son responded with "Why do you need to know that?" (Now I wasn't there but his older sister said his tone wasn't quite where it needed to be.)
The officer then said, "How you respond to this will dictate what happens to your sister! What is your birthdate?"
Again ds said, "Why do you need to know?"
The officer became furious and said, "I have a right to question anyone in a car that I've pulled over."
He then returned to his car, wrote her a $279 ticket, and went to the passenger side to scream at ds that he was just going to give her a warning but that she could thank her brother for this ticket.

Something happened a little later that is pretty interesting, but before I get to that, tell me what you think. Do the police have a right to interrogate everyone in the car, particularly minors, when they pull someone over for speeding? Now, if he had had suspicion they were drinking or doing drugs, OK, but they were in swimming suits and clearly sober.

_________________
******
"Like" us on Facebook. http://www.facebook.com/HomeschoolChristiancom

Is it always the right thing to do? Probably not. Unfortunately, your son's apparent attitude contributed to the end result. I have always told my children, you may not like why the police pull you over, or agree with their questions etc. but jrust say yes sir and move along

_________________
Stephanie

I agree with Stephanie. Most likely, ds will be pulled over by the police once he is an adult. How he responds in the situation will also play heavily into the outcome. That really comes for all of us adults. If I get pulled over and have a nasty attitude, I'm sure the officer will respond back with the same.

Did the officer do anything that he shouldn't have? I don't think so. Had he had them all get out of the car to do a alcohol sobriety test or search the car then I might think that he had crossed the line, but simply asking the age of someone in the car isn't unusual in the case of young people.

I'd take him back to scripture and talk about what his response should have been. My mind jumps quickly to "a soft answer turns away wrath." The bible has plenty to say about respecting authority. I'd also think about having him pay a portion of the ticket.

Another thought. Your 17yo is the one we had lunch with last month? If so, he looks older than his age. The officer could very well have been concerned that these two young ladies were with someone older than them and possibly be in danger. Without seeing id's, he couldn't know for certain that they were related.

All that being said and no offense to anyone in law enforcement, but officers do not always act in a heroic manner. You also live in a small town and that can often make it worse.

Asking birthdate is a common way to verify that people are telling the truth about age. If you are telling the truth, it's easy to remember your birthdate - if not, you have to think and think for the right number to add up to the right age. He may have wanted to be sure that the young man in the car wasn't actually a child-abuser taking advantage of young girls.

Once a police officer has made a stop for-cause, he does have the right to verify that the people in the car are doing the right thing.

And, every car of young people may look the same to an officer - it is really hard to tell innocent and sober at a glance.

I remember a time I got pulled over, late at night. The "cause" was a non-working turn signal. The officer shone a flashlight into the car and asked what the can under the seat was. (Okay, I AM a slob!) He got so much nicer when it was an empty can of *caffeine-free* diet coke!

I follow protocol when I am pulled over - right hand on the steering wheel, window down with left hand on the window. No sudden moves. I tell the officer if I need to move to get out an ID or proof of insurance. I call them "sir"or "maam" and am always respectful. A lot of time police officers are frightened - remember a lot of them get killed at work. They deserve for us to operate under the assumption that they are doing the right thing, as most of them are, most of the time.

I don't think the officer did anything wrong - *except* punishing dd for what ds did! (you may be able to fight that one in court, self-represented, if there's an optional trial date with the ticket). If DS did something wrong (and his disrespectful tone was a problem), then he should have gotten the ticket, not her. But, his offense probably didn't rise to the level of a ticket - it was just poor manners/judgment.

And, if he was driving the opposite way, how did he clock dd's speed - are you sure she WAS speeding? (I don't know how the contraptions work, but seems to me a speed gun needs to be operated while sitting still)

I agree with Neesa, DS needs a talk about how to act if this happens again.

DD might need some help in court with 1) was there verification she was speeding, and 2) why did the officer ticket her for her brother's offense?

_________________
http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

I was wondering how he could tell her speed when they were going the opposite way, too.

But I would say an officer definitely has the right to question everyone in the car. Your ds is crazy, lol. I don't think I could question an officer like that, especially at that age. At my age now I would probably question something that seemed out of line (which asking your birthdate doesn't), but as a kid, I think I'd be scared and answer whatever the police officer wanted me to, lol!

_________________
Mom to Christian (13), Saphira (10), Xavier (5), and Adrian (2).

Though if dd was speeding, then the officer had every right to give her a ticket regardless of ds' attitude.

a c l u's booklet on your rights when encountering authorities...you have the right to remain silent. Anything that comes out of your mouth can be used against you. So I think your son's questioning the officer as to WHY is what got him in trouble.

http://www.aclu.org/files/kyr/kyr_english.pdf

_________________
"...with men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26

I don't know our rights in these cases, Martha.

I have always wanted to know, specifically, what they are allowed to ask us; and/or require us to do, ie., searches. Things are changing rapidly, these days, though, and I know that some states are giving officers more freedom/discretion, to ask more personal information.

When we don't know, we will likely give information that is unnecessary and could be detrimental to our case, later.

But even in knowing our specific rights, when actually in that situation, we have to know that anything can/will be used against us. So if we are ever ready and willing to stand up for those "said" rights, we also have to be willing to pay the consequence.
The officer will, most likely, find a way to punish you for standing up for your rights.

Best defense.....stay OFF the radar, as much as possible!

Have your son pay half the ticket and maybe explain to the insurance company what happened.

_________________
<a href="http://lilyslim.com/"><img src="http://swtc.lilyslim.com/G2dWbbw.png" width="400" height="120" border="0" alt="LilySlim Weight charts" /></a>