I've heard it said that when taking away something for spiritual reasons (fasting) one ought to consider adding something else pious in (more prayer), like is suggested here, Kysa. When we are in a time of extended fasting, like at Lent, we have found that our church attendance tends to increase so we can join in with the organized prayers (not the only way to pray of course, but it certainly does help to have a set something to go to where prayer is scheduled). You see these organized/scheduled prayers much throughout Scripture which makes sense because it was the practice of the church from the beginning. This is one of those "carryovers" from Judaism.

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)

I thought this thread WAS about prayer & fasting. I don't think it's possible fast in the Christian sense without praying. (It is of course, possible to pray without fasting)

_________________
http://stuffedveggies.blogspot.com/

Now you are actually making my point. My original statement was this:

Fasting was part of Judaism. It was done for various reasons, but it is not commanded in the New Testament. It generally falls under the category of "If you want to do it, feel free, but don't bind it on anyone else."

That was responded to with an insistence that it IS commanded and I simply pointed out that it is NOT commanded. You then tried to say that "When..." means it is commanded and I have pointed out the fact that this is clearly not the case. Now you are back to agreeing with my original statement. I have never said "don't do it" or "you're a fool for doing it" I have said it is an individual choice whether or not to do it, not a commandment for all.

Turn to Acts 21:18-26 and read about Paul going to the Temple with four men to be ritually purified with them which included making an offering. Verse 26 makes it abundantly clear.
"Then Paul took the men, and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at which time an offering should be made for each one of them."

This was done on the advice of "James and all the elders" of the church in Jerusalem according to verse 18 and the point is also specifically made in verse 21 that the customs (not commandments) of the Jews can continue to be observed among the Jews but that in verse 25 it says "But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality."

So, all the Jewish customs (and even commandments like sacrifices and circumcision) are explicitly NOT commanded of the non-Jewish believers. This is in keeping with Colossians 2 where it says "So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths" or Romans 14 where it explicitly states "Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him."

I have said it since the beginning of this discussion and I will say it again:
In the New Testament, fasting is a choice, not a commandment. If you want to do it, have at it. Please do not state that it is a commandment/requirement for all Christians.

Let me just finish up with another statement from Paul in Colossians 2 (read the whole chapter and it is abundantly clear that he is specifically dealing with folks attempting to bind Jewish custom/law on non-Jewish believers):

Therefore if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations -- "Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle," which all concern things which perish with the using -- according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Scott,

I think you're correct in saying that it is not a commandment and I don't believe anyone here said that. However, as I have learned over the past three years, you cannot take only the words of the bible. That is not the context in which the bible was written. As I think someone said here, some things were not recorded because they were not necessary...there weren't heresies entering the Church about fasting.

If I had to guess, which is what I am doing in my next statement, the verses you're quoting are within the context of fasting. In the Orthodox Church, we are taught to "keep your eyes on your own plate". At Pascha (Easter) there is an ancient homily read which welcomes those have fasted well, those who have hardly fasted, and those who have not fasted at all. Sounds a lot like those scriptures you quoted. During extended fasting periods, no one talks about the fast. It is a personal thing between one's spiritual father, God, and themselves. Because it was the tradition of the Church that brought the bible together, I trust their wisdom in interpreting the scriptures. Not to mention, seeing it with my own eyes. Fasting, in the Ancient Christian Tradition, is a beautiful thing that brings about humility, not to mention the rest of the fruits of the Spirit. If one can become more humble, I'd say that's something! And again, when fasting under the guidance of the Church, one is truly faced with themselves, offering one a chance to taste and see that the Lord is good and that He alone is our sustenance. When we come that point with God, we are truly on our way to healing.

***said from a person who has not fasted much at all.

I guess in summary: Yes, it's one's choice whether to fast or not, but because of the spiritual benefits (humility, trust, increased prayer, a focus on God, a breaking of a stronghold, etc.), it's very much expected and needed.

How's that?

In my experience, I know that I try to get away with doing as little as possible sometimes. I'm lazy! I look for the "line" and end up walking right next to it. But that doesn't seem to be God's way. In His way, there doesn't really seem to be a line. The thought (in regard to fasting) isn't so concerned with the line and what we have and don't have to do ("Do I have to fast?"). The thought, instead, is "How can I grow closer in communion with God?" and fasting certainly helps in that regard. It's not "Do I have to?" so much, but "When? How?" And some good practices came out of the early church.

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)

I do not try to get away with doing as little as possible. Far from it. (and no, I am not about to go off like the apostle Paul with a list of things I do). My thought on fasting is that I know some folks did it in the early church and I know some folks did it in Judaism. I also know that the discussion about the gentiles was NOT directed at folks who already fasted, but rather at folks upon whom additional dietary restrictions were being placed by Jewish believers.

I think fasting CAN be good. I know fasting CAN be bad (Jesus took a dim view on how some folks did it). I also know that sincere and devout people can be badly mistaken (and Paul goes on a rant about that in Acts 23 - stating that he did everything "in all good conscience" including killing Christians). This is why to me we must always be careful when stating that something is a "commandment" which everyone must follow.

I apologize here publicly to anyone offended by the tone of any of my posts. I did not call anyone any names nor did I make any personal attacks. Every post I made was solidly grounded in Scripture, and that was intentional. When discussing Christianity, I look first and foremost to the Word and everything else is secondary. Yes, I know my church history, but I also know that we are told not to add to or take away from the Book.

May the Lord bless you on your journey, Scott!

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)

This kind goes out only by fasting. ???

Alex, please forgive me for jumping in to the conversation without really addressing your original question in the first place. I fast because Jesus taught the apostles to fast as evidenced by early church practice (fasting was spoken about in very early writings; letters written while the apostles were still alive, and before there was any Scripture). Fasting is a major way we can deny ourselves (which we are commanded to do by Christ himself). If one can fast with humility, perseverance and repentance, it can be pretty effective in bringing one in to dependence on God.

The first sin -- the one that caused the fall of Adam and Eve -- was a breaking of a God-given fast. The Lord in His wisdom had limited the diet of Adam and Eve a little bit, and this led to the first sin of disobedience and not denying self in this way. Fasting is an age-old struggle. As Christians, we can face the same choice and struggle, and should we choose to do so with the right heart, God will honor it. The early church developed a pattern of fasting as it matured under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, which is still used by Orthodox Christians today. Regular fasting is not a complete abstinence from food, but denying one's self specific foods (as in the Garden of Eden) at certain times. There is a time for complete abstinence as well (when preparing to receive the Eucharist, for example). Fasting has developed in other ways, in other traditions, as well.

What has been your experience/thought on fasting?

_________________
Warmly, Darla Juliana
"Be kind for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle" (Philo of Alexandria)