On Women's ministries.

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

http://www.faithit.com/why-we-dont-need ... -ministry/

I'm both - convicted and offended! First off, I haven't seen these types of women's "ministries" in many years! Secondly, I think many Christian women DO need/want this type of fellowship. Many of us don't have mentors that teach the womanly art of homemaking, housekeeping, and "husbandry". It almost seems she's belittling these get-togethers that get stay-at-home-mom's out of the house and speaking with other adults on a fun level. Maybe their ministry is to their family and they are getting burned out. Maybe they need inspiration and motivation and FUN!

OTOH, I understand this waarrior side, too.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

I think I'm with you, Sis - which is to say conflicted. She begins to make a good point, but doesn't and instead lapses into near-ridicule.

I've always disliked the sort of so-called "ministry" she's talking about. It was very common in Protestant circles back when I was a single Protestant. I was not married, not a Mom, not craftsy, not artistic, was working to support myself - and not into decorating. These meetings seemed to me to be saying "Christian women have to fit this mold - and you're not part of the group!"

On the other hand, the secular "Mother's Club" I went to with my sister was quite fun. They still had cooking and crafts and taught people to relate better to their families - but they called it what it was - a club for Moms! I think it's lovely if the Church also has a club for Moms - taught from a Christian worldview - if there is a need - but CALL it that.

But, I disagree with her vision for improvement. Running a Marathon to raise money seems to me to be about as frivolous as decorating a cupcake and calling that Bible study. If you want to give money, give it! Don't go run around in circles and then ask someone ELSE to support your cause. Do something productive for someone else, rather than these sorts of fund raisers that don't produce any product for anyone.

And - the elephant in the room that I really think she missed - why on earth would we have "Ladies'" Bible studies, anyway? There's only one Bible, and contrary to current marketing tactics -there's not a "Women's Bible" and a "Men's Bible" - we all read the same one - why can't we all have the same study? Even the Biblical passages that address women and men always do so side-by-side.

Our Church just offers a "Bible Study" - it's not segregated - anyone can come. What is the benefit of segregating a study of Scriptures?

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

And - the elephant in the room that I really think she missed - why on earth would we have "Ladies'" Bible studies, anyway? There's only one Bible, and contrary to current marketing tactics -there's not a "Women's Bible" and a "Men's Bible" - we all read the same one - why can't we all have the same study? Even the Biblical passages that address women and men always do so side-by-side.

Our Church just offers a "Bible Study" - it's not segregated - anyone can come. What is the benefit of segregating a study of Scriptures?

To me, a "women's bible study" is different than a men's bible study because it is just women or just men. I don't like being in mixed company when studying the Bible because I feel intimidated by guys being in the room. I don't feel comfortable asking those "stupid" questions. Sure, a woman could take the attitude of "you really don't understand that concept" and make you feel like a complete idiot, but I am just more comfortable with an all women's study than mixing the genders. Guys, too, just like to have other guys around for the same reason. They just want another man's opinion.

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

I think I'm with you, Sis - which is to say conflicted. She begins to make a good point, but doesn't and instead lapses into near-ridicule.

I've always disliked the sort of so-called "ministry" she's talking about. It was very common in Protestant circles back when I was a single Protestant. I was not married, not a Mom, not craftsy, not artistic, was working to support myself - and not into decorating. These meetings seemed to me to be saying "Christian women have to fit this mold - and you're not part of the group!"

On the other hand, the secular "Mother's Club" I went to with my sister was quite fun. They still had cooking and crafts and taught people to relate better to their families - but they called it what it was - a club for Moms! I think it's lovely if the Church also has a club for Moms - taught from a Christian worldview - if there is a need - but CALL it that.

But, I disagree with her vision for improvement. Running a Marathon to raise money seems to me to be about as frivolous as decorating a cupcake and calling that Bible study. If you want to give money, give it! Don't go run around in circles and then ask someone ELSE to support your cause. Do something productive for someone else, rather than these sorts of fund raisers that don't produce any product for anyone.

And - the elephant in the room that I really think she missed - why on earth would we have "Ladies'" Bible studies, anyway? There's only one Bible, and contrary to current marketing tactics -there's not a "Women's Bible" and a "Men's Bible" - we all read the same one - why can't we all have the same study? Even the Biblical passages that address women and men always do so side-by-side.

Our Church just offers a "Bible Study" - it's not segregated - anyone can come. What is the benefit of segregating a study of Scriptures?

While our regular combined Bible studies do cover those passages, I always enjoy the women's studies. We have women that won't speak up in the regular study (whether it's the amount of people or the men, I don't know). And a couple of the women will only come to all-women Bible studies - I think because of the time they're offered. The families with lots of kids, especially, like it when the dad can stay home with the kids or the mom can. We don't always have someone to watch kids during the regular study (altho' I have been doing it for a couple of months now).

Our women seem to feel more free to get more in depth with their real problems and how to apply scripture to them in a women's-only study. We never get into husband bashing, or man bashing. Only one visitor once kept going there as she had recently been beaten and was still recovering. It was very uncomfortable but we loved her thru it as best we could.

About 1/2 of our women are not married. They tend to like the all-women studies as well! But they want to tackle books like Revelation. :mrgreen:

It's been awhile since we've had a women-only study. And it's been years since we've had a craft day. Our craft days were just "bring a craft and a snack" and we gabbed while accomplishing scrapbooking,, quilting, or whatever.

I'm with one of the commentors that said something like, "If this is on your heart, you should be praying about it and bringing it to the leadership". If your church isn't reaching out to local homeless, shut-ins, etc, then feel free to start something (under the leadership). Some of those "crafting" women would love a chance to step out but don't know how to begin. (Or maybe their husbands don't want them to!)

LisaTX · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:35 pm

Anna1111 wrote:

I think I'm with you, Sis - which is to say conflicted. She begins to make a good point, but doesn't and instead lapses into near-ridicule.

I've always disliked the sort of so-called "ministry" she's talking about. It was very common in Protestant circles back when I was a single Protestant. I was not married, not a Mom, not craftsy, not artistic, was working to support myself - and not into decorating. These meetings seemed to me to be saying "Christian women have to fit this mold - and you're not part of the group!"

On the other hand, the secular "Mother's Club" I went to with my sister was quite fun. They still had cooking and crafts and taught people to relate better to their families - but they called it what it was - a club for Moms! I think it's lovely if the Church also has a club for Moms - taught from a Christian worldview - if there is a need - but CALL it that.

But, I disagree with her vision for improvement. Running a Marathon to raise money seems to me to be about as frivolous as decorating a cupcake and calling that Bible study. If you want to give money, give it! Don't go run around in circles and then ask someone ELSE to support your cause. Do something productive for someone else, rather than these sorts of fund raisers that don't produce any product for anyone.

And - the elephant in the room that I really think she missed - why on earth would we have "Ladies'" Bible studies, anyway? There's only one Bible, and contrary to currentmarketing tactics -there's not a "Women's Bible" and a "Men's Bible" - we all read the same one - why can't we all have the same study? Even the Biblical passages that address women and men always do so side-by-side.

Our Church just offers a "Bible Study" - it's not segregated - anyone can come. What is the benefit of segregating a study of Scriptures?

I really didn't understand her point in that article or most of her strange ramblings, but I agree with everything you said. From the women's Bible studies I've been to, it's mostly just an excuse to chat with other women. Superficial, off topic, etc. That's fine if you're just getting together to talk about whatever, but it's bizarre when God is not at the center of His own meeting. Not that all Women's Bible studies have to be that way, that's just my experience.

I do prefer mixes gender Bible studies. Our church also only has one Bible study and it's for everyone. I have heard many wise things from the men and value their input, wisdom, and experience. And like you said, there's only one Bible.

Anna1111 · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:14 pm **Posts:** 8115

The segregated Bible studies I have been to have degenerated into a group therapy session all too often. I'm a little wary when people say, "We can discuss things with other women that we can't discuss with men" - because to me that usually means people have gotten off the topic of Scripture.

Bashing isn't the only danger, as I see it - so are narcissism, private interpretation, and an elevation of emotion over the truths of Scripture.

If a woman is intimidated by men in the room, the Bible says to simply ask your husband at home - it's an easy fix : ) I'm not too inclined to be intimidated, but there are many times that I do ask my husband at home if I feel like the entire group would not find my question useful, - like if it is a "rabbit trail".

Also - if my whole family isn't welcome somewhere, I generally don't go. We've never hired a babysitter for an "adults only event" and likewise, I only go to events where my DH is welcome and loved. The Bible says the "two become one" and just as I wouldn't exclude my arm, I don't care for excluding my husband. I DO go to a weekday morning study that is MOSTLY women, but men are welcome, and a few do come. And, of course, the Priest is a male! : )

Neesa in FL · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:02 pm

Her blog reminded me of Matt Walsh. Throw a controversial title up on the internet in order to drag everyone in to listen to you stand on your soap box. Perhaps that's how women's ministry is run at her church. If it is, then I hope she's gone to her leadership to express her concerns rather than blasting it apart on the internet. More likely she's disturbed about what she sees as a growing trend. Again I think there is a better way to express your opinions about such matters instead of being hyper critical.

I think there are different types of events in ministry that fill all kinds of needs. If fluff and fun is chosen over discipleship and the word then of course things are out of whack, but I do think you can probably have both. Does that mean that everyone in the church will want to attend every event? Of course not. You can't meet everyone's needs at any one event. As a single mom there were times I needed other adult relationships with women who could mentor me. Sometimes I needed a night of fun after being alone with the kids for days on end.

I have enjoyed being in ladies' bible studies and in mixed studies. Though I tend to share my heart more when I'm with ladies since it would be inappropriate for me to share those things with men. On the other hand I enjoy hearing the wisdom that some men bring to the table. I've made good friends that have been like brothers from being in studies with the men in my church. To eliminate either would be a shame.

StacyinTN · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:01 pm **Posts:** 2491

Anna1111 wrote:

The segregated Bible studies I have been to have degenerated into a group therapy session all too often. I'm a little wary when people say, "We can discuss things with other women that we can't discuss with men" - because to me that usually means people have gotten off the topic of Scripture.

Bashing isn't the only danger, as I see it - so are narcissism, private interpretation, and an elevation of emotion over the truths of Scripture.

If a woman is intimidated by men in the room, the Bible says to simply ask your husband at home - it's an easy fix : ) I'm not too inclined to be intimidated, but there are many times that I do ask my husband at home if I feel like the entire group would not find my question useful, - like if it is a "rabbit trail".

Also - if my whole family isn't welcome somewhere, I generally don't go. We've never hired a babysitter for an "adults only event" and likewise, I only go to events where my DH is welcome and loved. The Bible says the "two become one" and just as I wouldn't exclude my arm, I don't care for excluding my husband. I DO go to a weekday morning study that is MOSTLY women, but men are welcome, and a few do come. And, of course, the Priest is a male! : )

At my church and around my area, I have been involved in both types of studies, with men and women, and just women. I like them both, but I tend to be more open and "talkative" with women, only. I just feel more comfortable. Sometimes there is a leader "leading" the Bible study, and other times, there is our Pastor or Elder leading the discussion.

As far as women's ministries at my church, our ladies do a fantastic job of mixing it up from very serious to so much fun! You can have both and still be a positive influence on everyone around you.

LisaTX · **Posted:** Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:21 pm

Anna1111 wrote:

The segregated Bible studies I have been to have degenerated into a group therapy session all too often. I'm a little wary when people say, "We can discuss things with other women that we can't discuss with men" - because to me that usually means people have gotten off the topic of Scripture.

Bashing isn't the only danger, as I see it - so are narcissism, private interpretation, and an elevation of emotion over the truths of Scripture.

If a woman is intimidated by men in the room, the Bible says to simply ask your husband at home - it's an easy fix : ) I'm not too inclined to be intimidated, but there are many times that I do ask my husband at home if I feel like the entire group would not find my question useful, - like if it is a "rabbit trail".

Also - if my whole family isn't welcome somewhere, I generally don't go. We've never hired a babysitter for an "adults only event" and likewise, I only go to events where my DH is welcome and loved. The Bible says the "two become one" and just as I wouldn't exclude my arm, I don't care for excluding my husband. I DO go to a weekday morning study that is MOSTLY women, but men are welcome, and a few do come. And, of course, the Priest is a male! : )

You said it perfectly! Especially the first two paragraphs. THANK YOU! I feel like those types of things should be discussed privately, not in a group setting that's supposed to be Christ focused.

Our Bible study is technically called Sunday School, which can be different from Bible study at some churches, but at our church, it IS the Bible study. So, my kids go to their own room/study, even though people of all ages are allowed in with the adults and one man does bring his older sons with him. We don't talk about anything that is not suitable for all ears, male or female, young or old. We just read Bible passages, sometimes watch a video with teaching from a trusted source and then discuss it, discuss doctrines, try to understand Biblical truths and more about Christ, the Holy Spirit, etc. and try to grow spiritually with God's word. I just don't see any need for segregation when you are coming together to understand more about God and His word. If you have a female only issue, that can be discussed separately with someone you trust, right? That's what I do, anyways. In person, through email, IM, etc. And of course, I have you guys, who probably hear far more than you care to about my problems.

I will admit, I don't do much talking anymore during Bible study. I used to talk a lot and blurt out whatever came to mind and I just loved to hear myself talk. I have two modes, silent or blabbering. I finally got sick of hearing myself and wanted to start listening. Lets just say something happened and God shut me up. The people in the room don't need to know every little struggle in my life, we need to know more about the Bible. They don't need to hear how a certain passage makes me *feel*, we need to hear what God says. I now speak up only if I truly feel like I have something valuable to add, so as not to make it all about me, but about God.

Sis · **Joined:** Sat Jun 30, 2012 5:22 pm **Posts:** 8837

Anna1111 wrote:

The segregated Bible studies I have been to have degenerated into a group therapy session all too often. I'm a little wary when people say, "We can discuss things with other women that we can't discuss with men" - because to me that usually means people have gotten off the topic of Scripture.

Bashing isn't the only danger, as I see it - so are narcissism, private interpretation, and an elevation of emotion over the truths of Scripture.

If a woman is intimidated by men in the room, the Bible says to simply ask your husband at home - it's an easy fix : ) I'm not too inclined to be intimidated, but there are many times that I do ask my husband at home if I feel like the entire group would not find my question useful, - like if it is a "rabbit trail".

Also - if my whole family isn't welcome somewhere, I generally don't go. We've never hired a babysitter for an "adults only event" and likewise, I only go to events where my DH is welcome and loved. The Bible says the "two become one" and just as I wouldn't exclude my arm, I don't care for excluding my husband. I DO go to a weekday morning study that is MOSTLY women, but men are welcome, and a few do come. And, of course, the Priest is a male! : )

Just curious. Does your group have co-ed baby showers?

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